Untitled - April 10, 2026
00:00:00 Speaker: Juggling life, whether it's through responsibilities or that invisible task load is a lot. Now, I am in no way saying that you don't enjoy it and yet it is hard. Hi, I'm Denise with the Working Moms Redefined Podcast, and I am excited to have Lisa Woodruff on who is the founder of organize three hundred sixty five. She is going to talk with us today about the real reason why high capacity women feel overwhelmed, and maybe why organization is about so much more than checklists, much like the one that I'm holding up to the screen. If you're watching us on YouTube or doing more or pretty containers in our house. Oh, I'm excited for this. Lisa is a mom herself and a grandma from Ohio. Lisa, thanks for joining us today. Oh my gosh, thank you for having me on. I'm so excited for this conversation. I can't wait. And at the end of this, what are you hoping that women and men that are listening feel or understand differently? Yeah, I think the big takeaway is that we are juggling a lot, and all of the roles and responsibilities that we have are important, and we don't have enough systems to take care of those. And if we could just invest in some simple systems, then we're still going to be doing a lot, but at least we'll have some SOPs at home like we have at work. Straight off the top. Give me one of your favorite SOPs that you have implemented in your life that has made such a difference. Yeah. So the one that has saved me since the time my kids were six months and two years old is the Sunday basket. I created it out of desperation. One Sunday night, everybody went to bed. I took the stack of kitchen counter papers that were like twelve inches high and spread them out on the floor, divided them into forty different actionable piles. Now remember this is two thousand and two. So we didn't have I mean, I had a computer, but we weren't really using them at that point. But still today, it's almost worse today because our paper pile is lower, but the invisible work of what we're mentally holding is even more. And so it's hard to even quantify and organize all the tasks you have to do when they're still in your head. So now I teach people to just write all those on index cards and start to sort those as well. You all have a Sunday basket system. Like I'm not a rocket scientist over there. Like everybody has some kind of way that you're paying the bills and making sure all of your to do's get done. The problem I see is that we have all, at some point, hit our breaking point and figured out how to organize our daily to do's, and every single system we use is different. And then we forget how we made the system. So we don't use the system. And so, you know, at home, we just don't have systems. We don't have good systems. So after I started organized three sixty five, I kept trying all these other things and everybody's like, explain the Sunday basket, explain the Sunday basket, explain the Sunday basket. I was like, okay, I'll manufacture the Sunday basket. So that's what we do. It's like a weekly planning system and ongoing tickler file and actionable to do's and all those projects that you have running through your household. So cool. Can't wait to learn more. Have fun in the work that you get to do. You talk about that feeling that women feel like they are sinking in life. What does that actually look like for the women that you work with? So sometimes it looks like they have it all together. And for most of the people listening, I bet it looks like you have it all together. And that's almost more frustrating because you're like, I, I don't know when I'm going to drop the ball. That's the most important. But I know there's a ball out there I don't know about. I know there's a straw that's going to break my back, but it looks like we've got everything going on. Like we're actually showing up at the soccer practice with the kids, and we're showing up for the work meeting. And like, it looks to the outside world that we have everything going on, but inside we feel like we don't really know if we've prioritized the right things. We don't really have a strategic plan at home. We're just doing the next best thing that we can do. And we've lost sight of the long horizon of why we're doing all of this. What's the next right step? Yeah. You want me to answer, huh? I like how we had that nice long pause, because I think that we get so busy doing and literally we can't stop. Because if you stop doing, then you're even more behind. Like we're in this catch twenty two. We can't stop doing because we're going to get further behind, but yet we know that we're not necessarily doing what we should be doing. That is the most important. So unfortunately, you're going to have to go into even rougher waters for like three to ten days where you're like, okay, I'm going to cancel the play date. I'm going to not go out for bunco or mahjong or whatever you do. I'm going to say no to my parents coming in town this weekend, and I am going to stop everything. I'm going to write everything down. I'm going to figure out what are all the responsibilities I have. I'm going to write myself a job description. I'm going to figure out which of the things are most important. Hey, at work, we can't do twenty four different projects at a time. We can only do three to five. And even then, if you do five, likely you won't get them done in a quarter. But at home we just keep adding, adding, adding, adding. And we need to really sit down and go, you know what? This is the season. We're not going to do any sports with kids. You know what? This summer we're only going to take one vacation and we're not doing anything else, you know? And start to make some of those decisions so that you can start to be proactive at home and at work instead of reactive. What a good thought process as we head into close to be summer time, believe it or not. I know, I know. I hope you got them in camps. Seriously, I got my grandkid in camps. I'm like, sign him up. Let's do this. Like, I don't know if I want to get up and take him to kids. I'm like, I'm paying for camping. You're not sure you want to get up and take him? Do you know what I would have done to have somebody pay for camp for you when you were a kid. Like, get out of bed and take the kid to camp, like. Save yourself. That's hilarious. But to that point, right? Like so many women feel like they are doing all the right things but still feel behind. There's a dynamic there of your daughter feeling that I know I do from time to time. Why does that happen? Well, because we are running our household like we are a kid like. So we left our childhood home, we moved into our adult house and we're like, yay! Nobody could tell us what to do anymore haha. I won! And yet there are all these things that have to be done and you're like, okay, fine, I'll just get the laundry day. Okay, I'll just get the cleaning done. Like we're trying to get our little to do list done so we can go out and play on Saturday afternoon. Okay. Well, that works for a period of time, but especially as you get to the end of your thirties and into your forties, it just completely breaks because the income you need to run your household in your forties is more than you need in your twenties and 30s. So most of us go back to work and or at least have a side hustle. And that adds an additional complexity because what we fail to realize is we are running a business already. So sixty eight percent of US GDP is household spending. So every single household is a small business in an economic entity. And a lot of women, like myself included, when I was a full time stay at home mom, which I loved, I assumed that my house was my my hours with no money because I wasn't working. So there wasn't a dollar per hour. And I want to really have you think differently about this. When you go to a job and work for someone else and they pay you for your time, that is a return on your investment in your household. That income comes into your household, however many different ways you make money, all that money comes into your household, and then you report the size of the business entity that you are running on your tax return. So if it's fifty thousand dollars, you're running a fifty thousand dollars business, it's one hundred and fifty thousand dollars, you're running a six figure business. And I want you to really internalize that you are running a business in your household, but you're running it without any systems. No priorities. And from a to do list, it would be like running your running your job from just going to meetings and doing email. Like it would just not work at all. I'd be like, well, I feel like I'm never done, but I'm not getting anywhere. Exactly, exactly. So you need to do this weekly planning in your house. And then what do we do in our company is every four months we do quarterly planning. So we're getting ready on May first, we'll do a live event where you literally look at the whole summer and you make these global decisions about what you want, how you want your business to run, how your household to run, what you are and are not going to do. And then you have a plan and then you run the plan just like you would in business, because you are a business. How cool. You can absolutely tell you, I've never looked at it like that. And yet it honestly, it feels like sometimes I feel as if I show up my A game all the time in business. Like I yeah, love the way that I show up in my businesses. And yet sometimes. And I'm going to guess now it's because I don't have the systems in place I feel as if I'm not showing up as my best self. I'm irritated. I'm frustrated. I'm overwhelmed at home, right? That is not fun. And I'm excited to see what it looks like to implement. And dare I say, is this potentially me operating from a place of reactive living? And if so, why and how do I get out of it? Yes. So and I know, like for myself, when I started my company the year I turned forty, um, it wasn't until, let's see, I guess it was almost ten years in business when Covid happened. And so for twenty twenty, you know, we're all locked down at home and now the whole family's back and my husband's working at home. He's never worked at home before. And then he went on a vacation early twenty twenty one, and his company made him shelter in place for two weeks when he got back. And I was like, man, I really, you know, I gotta, you know, we work differently. I wanted to like. And at that point, my, my company was pretty big. I had a warehouse, I had products, I had employees, I actually had an office, the office that I'm in right now. I had this office beautifully decorated, and I'm sitting there frustrated that my husband is working from home. And I was like, Lisa, you have an office, you have employees. Like the reason you're working from home is to let the dog out in the middle of the day. He can let the dog out in the middle of the day. So I went to the office and I started working. I had such a stay at home mom mindset that even though I was now a corporate CEO of my own corporation, I was a stay at home mom first. And I think it is so hard for us women or I won't say it's hard. I would say once you recognize as a woman that you are running two distinct entities, you will start to prioritize your time differently. You will say yes and no to different things. Whether you're a W-2 employee or you're an entrepreneur, manager or leader salesperson, whatever you're working for pay. You're also running the economic entity of the household. And here's where it gets even more complicated in your thirties, forties, and fifties. Somewhere along the line, you're going to have to step in for your parents and grandparents. You know, you got to be a power of attorney. Power of health care. I had to settle my dad's estate with my sister. Now you're running a third household. You're running a third economic entity, a third tax return. Here's the thing. If there's a PNL or a tax return attached to it, it's a third job. Okay. I want you to think whether you're being paid or not, there's money. Money is involved. It's the third job. Here's the problem. When you have to step in and be power of attorney or settle someone's estate, they cobble together their systems too, and they don't have them well documented. And a lot of times they can't even tell you what they did. I never got into my dad's computer, and when I got into his file cabinet, he had card catalogs and golf scores that didn't help me. So I had to literally cobble together his entire life in order to go find everything, turn everything off, and settle the estate. And it wasn't running on a similar system. So the Sunday basket, when you have the Sunday basket running, like you have a good email and meeting sequence at work, then when you needed to step in for your family members, you just create a Sunday basket for them and it's the same system. Okay. That's cool. Do you talk about the Sunday Basket in greater detail in your book. There is a chapter on it in the book. Yes, I talk about it all the time. And tell me about your book. It is called Escaping Quicksand The Ten Steps to Overcome the Overwhelm of Modern Home Life. This is my sixth book. I set out to write a book on how to organize your house. And then I realized, that's impossible. You can't write a book on how to organize your house. It's like, I mean, my course is like hundreds of videos. Like, there's no way to put it into a book. But I realized I'm fifty four now. The book I needed to write was, how did I mentally change from being reactive and overwhelmed to productive and purposeful and profitable? Yes, I got organized. Yes, I started the business. All those visible things you could see. But what internally shifted in me and I came up with ten things that really I changed in the way I thought about them. Uh, and like most of them don't even have anything to do with my family or my kids. They were personal mindset shifts I needed to make in order to become a more productive and positive person. How do women become productive at home and at work. Like, it just kind of happens. And I really made myself think about how did I do that? That's so cool. I can't wait to read through that. And we'll be sure to link the ability to be able to purchase that book in the show notes as well. You talk about that invisible work that so many of us are like, yep, we know that mental load that so many of us and we're quietly carrying. You've done research around this. What did you discover? Here's how we use our executive function. I just want to give you like a kindergarten version of how our brain works. Okay, so I was a kindergarten teacher and I supported kids who had ADHD in school. So I knew as a math teacher, a kindergarten teacher, how do you provide supports in school to executive function to kids who have ADHD? Then my kids had ADHD, then I organize people's homes who people had ADHD. Now I've been diagnosed with ADHD. Don't worry about that, okay? Our executive function is like eight different things. There's a whole bunch of different things. But the main thing, the number one thing that they found are executive function does is it gets stuff done like it's called working memory. So we're having this conversation. I'm talking you're thinking about what I'm saying. You're thinking about what you're going to say back. We're using our working memory. Here's a great example of how our working memory and our interrupted perspective memory are in a task switching state. This is my dissertation. You're buying something on your phone and then you need the passcode. So you have to go over into your email and you get the passcode. You're trying to memorize the passcode, you're coming back over to finish buying the thing and a text message goes off and it's the kids school. Well, are you going to finish buying the thing and then go see the text? No of course. So now you're checking out the kids school. Now that prospective memory test, that interruption, something that's going to happen in the future is now your working memory task and your working memory task of buying whatever you're buying online, probably from Instagram, if you're me, becomes the prospective memory task. You have to remember to go back and do it. And this is the mental load, the constant ness of we are doing something and we get interrupted and or we, we voluntarily remember that we have to do something in the future, and we're just like a ping pong ball in a machine back and forth. Here's the problem. There are seven other executive functions, but if you can't get out of this ping pong game, you can't utilize any of them. And the last little executive function standing in the back of the line flipping her hair is planning. Planning is an executive function you cannot plan. If you're using your working memory, add. So many of us stay in this busy state of like check, check, check, check, check, check. And you're always in your to do list and that you can't get to that calm planning state. The Sunday basket gives you that planning state. And there are all these other executive functions in there that you use as well. Organizing is literally an executive function. So these things that we're talking about, like getting your house organized, being planned, um, prioritizing, these are all executive functions. That's why they're so important. This is literally how your brain figures out what it's going to do every day and how it's going to get it done. Why do you think that's overlooked so much by women carrying it, myself included. I think, okay, can I get controversial, please? Okay, so I got my own PhD. I paid for it with the profit from my company, and now I'm going to pay to do my own research and then hopefully I'll get it published. So I'm not in academia, but in academia. In order to to do research, you have to do it under a theory. So I'm working under the cognitive load theory, which is the theory of how children learn in schools. However, in the housework literature, we are working under the gender, the doing gender theory and the doing gender theory, which emerged in the eighties, says that women do more work than men. This is undisputed. There's nothing controversial about this. Women are doing way more than men now. Men are doing more now than they ever have done, and women are doing less than they've ever done. So the gap is closing, but it's still, you know, like a cavern. It's huge. So there is this gap. And the population that studied in academia is married couples with children under the age of eighteen, which is in the eighties, was forty percent of the US population, but today is only seventeen point nine percent of the population. So when we study this invisible cognitive load in academia, which they are studying, and women have the overwhelming share, and they get anxious and stressed from it because they have an emotional response to the invisible load, which is true. We are only studying it in couples with children. Alison is one of the main study, uh, main researchers in this field. And she always studied couples with children and she has now had her first child. And she said, I knew it. I knew this was the population that needed this research the most. And I agree with her. However, what about the other eighty percent? Like, what about my widowed mother in law who had to settle her husband's estate? What about my mother, who lives on her own, who is trying to, you know, figure out how to do her taxes? What about my sister who never married? Like, do these people not count? Do they not have invisible low? Do they not need to prioritize? Do they not have housework? Of course they do. So we're leaving eighty percent of the population out of studies right now because we're under the doing gender theory, which says women do more. And so we must come up with solutions about how men can do more at home, which I don't know. Have you ever tried to get anybody other than yourself to do anything or even yourself? It's impossible. So how do you even solve that problem? I don't even think you can solve that problem. So I'm like, whatever, I'm not getting in a he said she said conversation. I'm a business owner. I'm a productive person. I want to solve the problem. I'm going to look to myself to solve a problem. How do I solve the problem? How I solve the problem is I get all of my working memory and prospective memory tasks out of my head and into the Sunday basket. I make a plan for the week, I run my plan, and I stay in planning and productivity. And then I go, yeah, I'm not going to be able to do all of this because I don't have that much capacity. And then it goes better for me because I have systems and these systems support people of all ages and all family dynamics and makes the invisible load visible so that we can organize it. But I'm going to go one step further. So I got my PhD because when we have kids under the age of eighteen, especially here in Cincinnati, Ohio, there are amazing research studies being done on kids who have ADHD and non-pharmaceutical interventions that we know work in schools. When you get to adulthood, there are none. There are zero interventions for adults with ADHD. I've talked to the researchers who do these. I said, let's do these with adults. And they're like, no, and you can't have my research money. And I was like, fine, I'll go get my own PhD and I'll pay for my own research. So see you later. So that's what I'm doing. Like is the Sunday basket, which I believe it is a solution, a non-pharmaceutical solution for externalizing your executive function. So you can have more cognitive capacity. And I believe it is. And within a couple of years I'll do the research and we'll see. Is that supported or not in science? That is so cool. Holy cow. Congratulations. Good luck. I can't wait. Thank you. Thank you. Since you said you talk about it one chapter in your book about Sunday Basket, where could people go to get a more detailed outline of that? Yeah. If you just go to organize three sixty five dot com, there's the Sunday basket tab and it talks to you about the Sunday basket. And then I have a podcast. it's eleven years old and or just type Sunday Basket in YouTube or other people have talked about it as a system for running the house or in your podcast player. You'll see all kinds of podcasts about it. I love it. So cool. Okay, so you also talk about this concept of becoming a woman of excellence. Yes. Tell me about that. Okay, so I told you I was recently diagnosed with ADHD, which I'm sure a lot of people are like, no kidding. How did it take them that long to realize that like, okay, it was actually hard to get the diagnosis. Anyway, growing up, I could not get straight A's. I couldn't even get a B's. I always had this floating C on my report card, drove my mother nuts like she's a straight A student. She's like, how can it be in science one time and it's in history the next semester. I'm like, I don't know what to tell you. They did diagnose me with dyslexia, but I knew that I wasn't like, I couldn't do that. I couldn't be perfect. I couldn't get the A, I couldn't get the even abs. So I knew I wasn't a perfectionist, but I wanted to be a stay at home mom so badly. And I got an early childhood education degree. And like, this is my Super Bowl stay at home mom, little kids like I am all in. This is how I could be as perfect as possible. So I, like paint a room. My husband come home. I'd be like, look, I painted this whole room and you go, you missed a spot. And I'm like, and I would just like, crush. I would just be crumbled. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I didn't do it perfectly. And I just kept having all these instances where I gave really good effort, but I wasn't perfect. And I was judged on the non perfection. You know, it's just a throwaway comment from my husband. He's a very nice man. Don't worry about it. But I mean, you know, you're sitting at the bus stop with moms and, you know, just this offhanded comment makes you realize that you're not meeting their expectations or you're not doing a good enough job. According to them, they may not even realize that they're saying it. So for a period of time, I was like, well, you know, just can't be perfect. Like not my problem. So I kind of like decided that I wasn't going to try because I couldn't meet the expectations. So I was going to give up trying. And I didn't really like that. I did that for a couple of years. I didn't really like the way that felt like that. I was just like downgrading myself around everyone else because I wasn't perfect and apparently they could be perfect. And then finally I was like, you know what? Nobody is perfect. Like perfect doesn't even exist. I do give good effort. Like I have a lot of great ideas. They're out of the box. They're weird, they're crazy, but they're fun and they're different. And look, I employ people because of them. Like I'm where we're coming from. I used to walk around the office. I'm where work comes from. Um, so there are good things about what I do, but I'm definitely not detail oriented and I'm not perfect. And in my mid forties, I was like, you know what? I did a podcast episode and I said, you know what? I am a woman of excellence. Like I try really hard. I do everything to the best of my ability. I work in my uniqueness. I bring unique things to the marketplace. I'm a woman of excellence. You are a woman of excellence too. No one can be perfect. And what happened in the subsequent years was I realized slowly I stopped judging myself and everyone around me, and I started accepting grace and giving grace to everyone around me. And my husband said the other day, he said, you know, you never judge anyone. And I said, no. He said, you don't judge yourself. I said, no. He goes, how did you do that? And this is, you know, going back and thinking, how did I do that? I replaced perfection with excellence. Excellent effort. Not perfect outcome. Excellent effort. Not perfect outcome. I'm writing that down. How good, how good. So freeing and free. Exactly. For those of us, myself included, who probably have strived or tried to live for some level of perfectionism over the years, what is the realistic first step, if you will, to something healthier like excellence? You know, for me, like, because I still do it today when I feel that people are judging me or providing a critique of what I'm doing, like I'm getting a PhD. So I'm getting a lot of critiques. I don't do it in this instance, but I'm saying like in regular life, um, when I feel like somebody says, you miss this or you didn't do this or this isn't done, I just say, yeah, either. Yeah, I'll get to it or Oh, okay. Do you mind doing that for me? Like, I kind of. I'm rubber. You're glue. Whatever you say bounces off me. Back to you. Like I don't take it in. Like I used to take in like, oh, I'm terrible. I need to do this better. And I'm like, no, it's dishes. Like everybody eats it. Like it's not just me or even in business. Like I just don't take myself very seriously. When I started the company, if the website went down, which happened often because we didn't have a good hosting company, if it went down, it's eleven o'clock at night. Like I would call my executive assistant and we'd be up until one a m trying to get this website up. You guys, there were three people on the website. No one cared. Now we could be in the middle of a sale and like the payment processor, they'll be like a payment processor stopped working. And I'm like, okay, well let me know when it's working. Like I just don't what am I going to do about. Do you think I know how to. I don't know how to do AI and I for sure don't know how to do coding. So clearly this is out of my wheelhouse. Whatever. It'll come back eventually. It's not earth shattering if people can't make a purchase at organized three hundred sixty five today, like this is not an emergency. Yeah, it's bad, but I mean, we're all gonna live. I think this is also eight. You know, I'm fifty four, so I'm just not as like wound up like I was in my twenties and thirties. I realized that it's all going to be fine. And yet, I love those of you who are a little bit more seasoned in life to be able to share that, because I would like to implement that sooner than I've been exposed to it. Exactly. And I love okay, so listen up, listen up, everybody. Focus in. You're going to have so much time. You're not going to know what to do with it in your fifties, sixties, and seventies, you're like, no, I'm never going to have time again. Like at the end of my thirties, I was like, never going to be able to ever do a jigsaw puzzle until I'm like ninety and retired. I do jigsaw puzzles every single night. I got a PhD in my fifties that's twenty five hours a week of work, and I still do jigsaw puzzles. And I ran a company and I took care of my grandkids. Like, you are going to have so much time and capacity in the future. So capture all of your ideas because the time is coming. It may not be now, but it is coming. So just take the next step. I promise you it's coming, I love it. And with that thought in mind, we need to stay organized. Capturing our thoughts or whatever that might look like to learn a new skill or something. But what do most people misunderstand about being organized, if you will? Um, a couple of things. Number one, organization in the United States is sold to us as an aesthetic. So how it looks, nothing in my house is labeled that surprise you. My house is very organized. My husband always say, can we hire an organizer for our house? I'm like, stop it. Nothing is labeled. It's very functionally organized. I know where everything is. I'm no longer Google. People can find what they need without asking me because it's always in the same place or the information is organized. That's what organization looks like. You're able to go out and go on a business meeting and not have the family fall apart behind you, because they couldn't find something, because they didn't know how to do it on their own. So to me, that's organized. The design aesthetic is, um, a design aesthetic, like what do you want it to look like? So I see organization as a three step cycle, decluttering, organizing, increasing productivity. So decluttering is getting rid of what you don't need. If it's the only tool in your tool chest, you get to the point where you actually don't need to declutter, but you don't know how to organize. So now you get rid of things that you actually need because you just want to have that feeling of being organized. So now you're decluttering stuff. You need. Organization is like school. It's analog. You do it on paper, like you do a brain dump on paper, and then you physically organize everything and then you increase productivity either aesthetically or digitally. So maybe you want it all labeled. You want it all cute bins, maybe you want to take your list and you want it to be a digital repeatable list. I don't teach the digital stuff because there's so many options and they're always changing, but the actual act of becoming organized is always analog. And it happens, you know, tactilely and kinesthetically. So cool. An organization doesn't mean adding more structure or more rules all the time. It actually gives you the mental capacity to have a sense of freedom. Yeah. And a lot of times, like when I or I used to organize homes in Cincinnati all the time. And now we just, you know, do it through the courses. About every ten years, your household functions completely differently. So if you move into a household with no kids functions one way, then you have little kids. It functions another way. Now you have, you know, middle school kids. It's just a different way. Now I've got grandkids living with us functions a different way. The more that you could say, gosh, I'm hitting a lot of friction. Like, it just seems like I'm doing rework a lot. Like every time I go for something, it's not in the right spot. Yeah. It's because you probably still have baby bottles there. And what you need are water bottles for sports. You know, you need to really change up the, the, the kitchen and the bedrooms and how you use this entire house every five to ten years for the people who are living in the house. And then once you get all those rooms to match the phase of life you're in, it's really easy to keep it organized. A couple things for me that were a big game changer is putting the water bottles in a drawer that they could access, instead of me having to access. That was really nice. And then in our mudroom area, their bag and coat hooks eye for aesthetics put them up as to where normal would be. They can't freaking reach that. Yeah. Right, right. So then I got those command hook things. Yep. I'll be able to take them off down the road, but for now they can still reach them. But gosh darn it, Hudson's still, even though he can reach them, still just throws the coat. And I'm like oh yeah, yeah they do. When my so my daughter lives in the basement with her two kids. She's a single mom. And one of the things I did when she was pregnant with the second one is I got a long piece of wood, a nine foot piece of wood, like a two inch by one inch thick. You know, just like a long, I don't know, like a bar of wood. And then I bought ten hooks and I grew, I drilled the hooks into the bar of wood. Then you find the studs on the wall and you drill the wood into the studs. That's how I did it upstairs. Also, when the kids were little and we still have the ones upstairs and I put that there, I said, hang everything like this is the breast pump bag, this is the diaper bag. And I went down there and a couple of weeks she wasn't using it. And then all of a sudden one day I went down and every single hook had like, all this stuff on it. Like, hooks are great. Just drill it into the wall. Who cares? Just drill it and drill it into a stud. Because I mean, these are boys. They're going to pull on that. Yeah. Everybody's got I've got hooks everywhere. Who cares? I've lived in this is the thing. You're using command hooks. I just want to call this out. I've lived in the same house for thirty years. We're not going anywhere. And when we move, we're going to have to paint it anyway. And you think the new people aren't going to want hooks? I mean, like, just just drill it into the wall. You can patch a hole. Yeah, drill it in. What a fun conversation. This has been so great. We always like to end every episode with a lightning round. And so yes, we, Lisa want to hear paper clutter or digital clutter. Which one causes more stress for you? For me, it's digital clutter because if it's out of sight, it's out of mind. So I turn it into paper clutter and then I could tackle it. Okay. In your morning, are you the type that drinks coffee first and then looks at your checklist or checklist. Then coffee. I don't have a checklist. I knew it, I knew it. So on Sunday, when I do my Sunday planning, I make like a weekly plan and everything that needs to get done actually gets put on the calendar. So in that case, yes, I do look at my calendar the night before and set timers on my phone so I know it. So I do coffee because I don't have to think about it because the timers are just going to go off. That's so cool. And timers sometimes for me is when I need to leave for the next appointment. Like it's not a timer for me to be like, okay, it's time to go do this. It's literally like, leave now to go to this appointment. And that has been so helpful. Yeah, I have a timer. I have a timer to get my grandson dressed and then a ten minute timer. Now we're supposed to get in the car, and then five minutes before every meeting so I can get water and go to the bathroom. Smart. Five minute warning. I love it. What is one small habit that has made a huge and noticeable difference in your life? Other than the Sunday basket, right? Um, I would say it is really looking at my calendar the night before and setting those timers. I mean, that is just because when you look at things the night before, sometimes you're like, oh, shoot, I need to put something in the car. I need to prep for that meeting. Like it gives you a little bit of a heads up on things that maybe weren't totally ready for. Do you set a reminder for you to check your calendar the night before so you don't forget? I don't because it's a habit now, but I do still set a timer to take my vitamins every night at seven o'clock, and I've been doing that for thirty years. So it's just to take my vitamins and stop drinking water so I don't get up eight thousand times in the middle of the night. And then of course, at seven fifteen, I'm like, I'm so thirsty. I'm thirsty. I'm gonna die. I'm gonna die. Our brains are a funky, funky thing. Oh my God. Okay. Last question. What is one thing that you wish working moms would stop feeling so guilty about taking time for? You are taking time for you. So the whole book, Escaping Quicksand is how do you reinsert yourself into your family? We are so good, especially if you have children. So these are moms You have to take care of a newborn. You have to sacrifice for newborn. And but that creeps, right? That creeps into everything. And at some point, you have to start taking time for yourself, which I didn't do until my kids were grown and out of the house and I still got pushed back. It's like, why do you have to go to a meeting? Why do you have to work late? Because why not? Like not tucking you into bed? Like, because I want to grow my company. I don't know, I don't have to justify this to you. So take time for you. Like you are allowed to have goals. Like I pay for Pilates. You know what else I paid for? Basketball lessons and piano lessons? And do I have a professional pianist or basketball player? No, I do not. So why can't I also have Pilates? Like you are one of the people in the household that's allowed to have all the things that you provide for everyone else. That's so good. Oh, thank you for sharing, Lisa. So many great thoughts. And I'm like, honestly, like Guideposts and boundaries for us to implement. If you are at all interested, visit organize three sixty five. We'll put the links to her book, to the Sunday basket, to all of these great ways to connect with her as well. But Lisa, thank you for pouring into women in ways that we aren't always able to pour into ourself. Thank you so much for having me. Be sure to check out organize three hundred sixty five dot com. And thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of the Working Moms Redefined Podcast. Thank you for listening to the Working Moms Redefined Podcast. It is not lost on me that you chose to spend time together. Thank you. Let's connect outside of the space on socials. 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