Untitled - January 20, 2026
00:00:00 Speaker: So many working moms, working parents have that pressure, whether it's loud or quiet, to show up and have it all figured out. You have to have the Google Calendar plan to a T, you need to have the right outfits. You need to have the lunches packed. You need to have all of that. Plus be present. Be grateful. Be where your feet are all at the same time. Even me thinking about all of the things that we do had me stop in my place because there's so much that each and every one of you carry and life is messy and dare I say, beautifully messy. And we're not doing anything wrong. But I really want us to believe that statement. Today I am joined by Kim Kopecki, author of The Beautiful Mess. She is a speaker, a corporate leader, and a mom. And if you can see on our YouTube channel, she is full of like, her eyes are so bright because she's eager to share with you a way to give yourself permission to stop chasing perfection. Sign me up. I'm doing better, but I feel like there's always something that we can be doing differently that will help our central nervous system chill out a little bit more, and maybe even embrace life. So today we're going to talk about letting go of that idea of everyone else has it together, but I don't mentality. Kim, thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. Very excited to be involved. Yes, we get to chat today about so many things. But before we go too far, once our listeners get all the way through this episode, what is it that you hope that they take away or they experience or that they have learned? I think the biggest thing is that you're not alone. And that's why I wrote the book, because I felt alone. And as I spoke with more and more women as I was going on that journey, I realized, hey, I'm not alone. So I want everyone to know they're not alone. How did you pull yourself out of that thought process? Because that's hard to dig out of. I was in it for years, to be honest, so I think writing was a big outlet for me. Uh, I started just jotting down notes as I observed things because I sort of was like, how is this? How is this my reality at this point? You know, having little kids and being invited to like, parties. And these moms are doing these perfect princess things. And I'm like, I have no idea. I felt so lost. Um, so I think, you know, just sort of like trying to figure it out myself, but eventually really just reaching out to friends and other women. And as I started actually putting pen to paper and blogging, just more voices came up. Uh, and so I was able to kind of build out that, that support group and hopefully offer that as well. I love it. Can you give us a quick synopsis of the book called The Beautiful Mess? Yeah. I mean, the way I describe it is it's part memoir, part humor, a little bit of advice, although I it might be kind of in the bucket of self-help, but it's not like traditional, I think, self-help, where it's like, here's a plan. And if you go forward with this plan, you're going to get X, Y, and z outcomes. Um, but more more of that mixture and, and hopefully something a little light hearted. You can read when you're having a glass of wine and you're just exhausted. When did you realize I love the concept? Beautiful mess. Right? Because things are messy whether we want them to be or not. And it's how we choose to label them as to how we view things. When or how did you decide to start realizing that you weren't failing anymore? Yeah. I mean, I think just sort of taking a step back, um, and focusing on what was right, because we focus a lot on what's not right. I still do it. I'm completely guilty of it. Uh, we just launched our big product yesterday on my company, and now I'm like, okay, what else do I need to go tackle? Like, enough with that. I'm on to the next. And I think just. Yeah. Realizing that, taking a breath. Um, and I think, honestly, I wanted it to be true. I wanted it to be okay, to be messy. I wanted it to be true and okay. And so in a sense, I sort of willed it to be. But I think through that journey, I realized that it's just many, most people's truth. And to let that be okay. Can you give me some example of things like you had said, the princess parties and then realizing like, hey, it's okay if we have a family dinner and there's a cake that I didn't buy. What are the what other examples come to mind for you from your own previous experiences, just in terms of the mess of it all? Oh, I have lots of stories in the book. Um, but I think things like, especially because you're speaking to working moms, you know, like, hey, I have to be on a call, but I'm in the car, I've got two kids in the back, and they've decided to have a fight. Things like that where I'm like, thank God for that mute button. And I hope I'm using it correctly because I'm like mute and like yelling at my kids and to the call mute. Um, so I have I think I even have a chapter called confessions from the Mute Button or something like along those lines. Um, and my but my favorite mute button story is like I had my toddler at the time, she just happened to be naked, and I just couldn't calm her down and there was no one to help. And so she's like, eating a peanut butter sandwich. And I'm thinking I'm on like a call with Asia. It's night time and I'm supposed to be presenting. And so I'm like, okay, this child is going to pee on me. I just kept and she didn't. She didn't. But I kept thinking, she's gonna pee. But, um, but I was able to lean on my colleague for a lot of that, and it worked out fine. But those are just like some examples of just. Just the mess, you know, and and getting through it. I think our kids realize the mute button voice that comes along with that, because Sidney says your voice is a lot meaner when the mute button comes on. And I said, and I wish that your voice was a lot more respectful when the mute button came on. You know, like, yeah, give and take. It's what we have to teach them. The reason why we are experiencing the way that we are. But yet their actions are also producing that. And when you're living this season of life in a space where you almost feel alone. Kim, what do you wish that you could tell those working moms that you almost wish you could have told the older version of yourself? Oh, interesting. Um, yeah. I mean, I would say I've thought about this a lot, and I have it in my book to like, particularly like, I think expectations on, like, the mom side and the work side. um, that there's really a lot more give and leeway. And I think we're our own worst enemies in terms of expectations. So like especially, I'll just give an example on the work side, um, I'm in, you know, kind of like strategy, marketing, sustainability. There's a lot of just like work that needs to be done to develop presentations, especially for management. Probably a lot of your listeners, it can relate to this, but man, did I ever spend extra hours on things like that because I either overengineered it or uh, but I think the biggest thing was to get clarity on what's the minimum viable product, which is a term that's used a lot in software development. Um, okay. What is really the expectation? First of all, what's the minimum expectation from whoever your audience is and what are the goals? And then, um, you know, are you mapped out with that. And I would have I've learned this though, by, you know, doing it wrong. Um, and I still do this now. And I still do it in my boss today. It's like, okay, this is what you said you want, and you write it all down. Is this really what you wanted? And almost nine times out of ten, it's like. Mm. Not quite I actually want to this, this this this. And I'm telling you it cuts out insane amounts of work that you would otherwise be doing. And I think too, like, um, personal side, just asking for help, uh, which is hard, but even asking my spouse for more help, um, has been really helpful just in terms of just sanity building. And all of those things are hard. I mean, setting the expectation. I love your thought process of when you actually set the expectation and then evaluate the expectation that you set potentially eliminating work. Of course it does, because it gets you almost hyper focused on what you actually want because you're taking the time now to say, ooh, I didn't want that. I didn't want that. And that's hard because then you have to say, well, then what do I really want? And asking ourselves that question is scary. It's really scary. Grace is something that all of us could give ourselves more of. It is a simple phrase, but darn it, it is so darn hard for high achievers. Like I would say, you and me. Why do you think grace is often the first thing that we withhold from ourselves? Mhm. I mean, I think it comes along with being a woman and being a mom because we tend to put other needs first and that feels right and it feels satisfying and it feeds us too. But it also can be draining. Um, and so you're just kind of continually taking the water out of the well, the water out of the well, and eventually the well is starting to run dry. So I think it's so natural for us to to lean in on the giving side of things, but but giving to others, prioritizing others. And so giving ourselves grace is something we have to actually practice, and in some senses, maybe even structure to get started. I think I'm answering everybody's question by asking, how? How do I do that? Yeah, I mean, it is a lot of just being self-aware and self-reflection. It's those things like scheduling that block of time that you need to what whatever it is, go to the gym, go for a walk, making sure that's on the schedule for work or letting your family know. And I know these aren't always perfect. Also, like, say you do that block of time and then you have to give that time away. Well, don't punish yourself, just create another block of time. Um, so I tend to kind of sprinkle these into my day like I'll waste it on the mat or I mean, okay, so here's in my mind what I would love to do in the morning. I would love to journal and then get on my mat and do some yoga and do some meditation and, um, you know, have a protein rich breakfast. So how much do I actually do that? Yeah, maybe half less, but it's still better than nothing. So I if I, if my butt hits my mat, even if it's for two minutes, it still gives me that headspace. So I think this idea of like practicing imperfection, which I talk a lot in the book, is just how you can just start giving yourself grace, you know, so you can't screw it up, I guess, is what I'm saying after seeing imperfection, um, that just removes the guilt so much from things. How did that come about for you? Um, I think just through the process of writing and blogging and, and just this pressure to be perfect, and in my intro, I, I mean, this book was about twelve years old now, uh, the, uh, the Sheryl Sandberg book, the, um, God, what's the name of that book, anyway? Yeah. Lean. Lean in, lean in. Thank you very much. Lean in. And so the Lean In book, I was like, yes, I'm so excited for this book. And I read it and I just felt worse about myself because I'm like, oh, I'm not meeting those standards either. So it's just kind of like, well, what did Lean In leave out? And it's sort of filling that gap of reality. Um, like what what how the mess of real life and that sort of dictates that. Well, that means it's not perfect, but because we're so hardwired for perfection, we have to unlearn it. So that's why that like, it's a practice, you know, it's like a practice of imperfection. And I'm continuing to practice it today. Um, so that's how I think of it. Is, is literally a practice, whether you're a yoga practice or you have a music practice or you have whatever sort of practices you have in your life, um, it's it's we have we have to focus on it or we keep going to that perfection and then punishing ourselves if we don't achieve it. You're so right. You're so right. Also, in the book called The Beautiful Mess, you talk about how maintaining strong friendships while being a working mom is hard. How have you learned to prioritize those relationships in moments of a stacked full schedule? Mhm. Yes, it's a challenge, but so, so important because when you come out of this season, you want to have those friendships, you know, to continue on. They're so important. I have a chapter in the book called for a busy Working mom. It's okay to be an imperfect friend. And so what does that look like? Well, I, I definitely have examples of that in my life, but it's easy for priorities to get in front of friendship. And I think, you know, it's okay. I think you just need to kind of like, make sure with whatever friends you have. A lot of times your friends will also be busy moms or, you know, have their own busy life. And I think if you can kind of have some grace with each other, like, look, let's make a plan. But fifty over fifty, right? It might fall apart, it might not, and then just not get mad about it. And hopefully your friend doesn't get mad about it. So I'm like, hey, fifty fifty percent of success rate for a plan with a friend. That's good, I think to just relying on simple things like, I have a friend, we just like go for a walk. Easy. Um, I just or like a text string calls. I like calls in the car on my way to target. Like, I think there's ways to make it simple. And also, like, not all friends are going to continue on with you for all seasons of your life either. So just finding those relationships that are so important to you, um, and those feed those ones so I can sort of prioritize that, um, and be flexible and also like try and have low expectations on either end. So that's what's worked for me. And you know, I have friends too, that are actually quite close to me that I might not hear or talk to for like weeks and weeks. And it's like, no big deal. It's okay. It's like, she's a doctor. She's like, she's a physician raising kids, you know, with so much going on. And I'm like, listen, it's I'm never mad. Such great tips. When I think about for what works in this season of life, for me, the Marco Polo app has been so key. I love that being able to voice, record and audio. No, to be able to record both video and audio and watch it when it works on your time schedule and reply when it works on your time schedule is so great for us. And really planning far out in advance. I remember in December I set a date with a friend for mid to late March, and I remember at the time feeling so silly about it, but with the boundary of I only want to be gone one night a week from the kids. Yep. Need that. Needed to couple with it. Otherwise it wasn't going to work, right? Those are hard boundaries to be able to put into place. If you don't operate from a place of. But this is good enough, I'm doing it good enough with my friends. And the best way, like you had said, is to have that conversation with them. That's right. To lower the expectations so that yes, it is beautiful and yes, it is messy. But we're in this together because at the very beginning, right, we want to be able to realize that you are in community. I love it. Yeah, I do love the calendar planning too. It's really smart. Self-care is a topic that so many women talk about, but yet I'm not so sure we know what it means. When you talk about self-care, you talk about simplifying it. It doesn't have to be bubble baths. It doesn't have to be perfection like we've talked about, but simple real life care. What does that mean to you? I have a good friend and she's a fitness instructor, and I remember one time just asking her like, what's like the best workout? And she's like, the best workout is the one you're gonna do. I'm like, okay, let's do it together. Because. Yeah. So I think, and I, I have spiraled down the thing where I have been sucked in by marketing programs and hey, try this v shred thing and hit me on this. And like, it's just, it's like that thing where you're like, okay, you get all ramped up and then you start it and then you can't continue and then you kind of feel bad, right? So I think it's really. Yeah. Like, what is it that you like to do. What what will you do. And kind of going back to blocking time you know, can you do that and can you get make sure that things are, you know, either it's built into your schedule in the family and everyone knows every Tuesday and Thursday mom's gone for one hour, two hour, whatever or, you know, is it is it something that you you kind of build in wherever you can, like? Okay, every time at lunch I'm just going to go for a ten minute walk or whatever. So I think it's just again, it's similar themes, right. Like how do we lower the bar a little bit? How do we build things in? Um, I think it's hard to kind of, you know, stuff a structured program into our lives right now. And so even though those feel so attractive because it feels like, okay, just tell me what to do and I'll do it. Um, I don't think it works very well, to be honest, because on the days that it doesn't work with the schedule that you have, then you feel bad about it not working, you feel bad again. And so sometimes you can even do any like we do less of this now, probably because of, um, so much so many of us work from home and remote. But like if you can do a walking meeting or something like that, it can be it can be great. I used to do that with my, my, uh, marketing lead and it was really wonderful to be able to do that. I would say the one thing that's largely overlooked in self-care, which over the past I would say two or three years I've been learning as much as I can about is sleep. And, um, I think it's overlooked. And it has probably a multiple effect on everything else, including, you know, exercise and all the other things. And there's a book by Matthew Walker called Why We Sleep, and he's a neurologist. Um, I think he's at UC Berkeley. And I was absolutely horrified to read this book to realize, like, how the kind of dangerous almost or like how detrimental to your health it is to lose sleep or cut your sleep off. And that's just so counter to, I think, culture, especially US culture and corporate work culture. I mean, I had bosses that used to brag about how little sleep they got. I hope this is starting to change. Um, and it's important for kids to really important, you know. So I think we are more used to the fact that it's important for kids, but it's really important for us as adults, too. So I would say for the audience, like look into that. See if if there's some things you can do to to help, you know, make sure you get good sleep, quality sleep. Um, the things that I thought helped sleep don't help sleep. Um, I could really go into this for a long time, but I think just take a look at sleep in terms of self-care, I'll say as as kind of like a. Yeah. No, that's so intriguing, though. What do you do to help you for sleep? Um, I think so. The big things is humans really like to have a routine. So if we can go to bed at the same time and get up at the same time, even on the weekends, that is ginormous and incredibly helpful. Uh, I would say so. I just try not to stay up too late in watching Netflix. And that's hard because. Right, that's like your one moment where you can just go, thank God the day is over, right? And you just kind of like next episode. Next episode. I've been victim to that. And all of a sudden it's like midnight. I'm like, crap, I should have gone to bed at ten. So I think just, you know, trying to pull yourself away and just, you know, get get yourself a book or something. Um, yeah. Just and having some sort of, like, evening routine is important, um, to help you kind of ease into that state. So many great tips. And I know that I'm not the only one that is very excited to go grab our copy of The Beautiful Mess. And when we do, when we close that book after reading the last chapter, what do you hope that all of us carry with us from your experience that you've logged in that book into our everyday life? I think The beautiful mess is a beautiful life. Um, I love that a beautiful mess is a beautiful life. I am going to remember that when I am asking Hudson to pick up his clothes on the bathroom floor, and there are peanut butter messes on the counter from Sydney making her own peanut butter sandwich. I'm going to say A beautiful mess is a beautiful life. Oh, fantastic. It's a mantra. I love it. Good job Kim. That's great. We always love to wrap up every episode with lightning round style of questions. And so, Kim, what tool or habit from your corporate life has helped you the most about creating intentional space at home? I think clarity on the work front, like we talked about, yeah, that's super great. Um, when your child look back one day, how old are they, by the way? So I got a real range. So my my youngest is actually thirteen. Um, and then I have a couple of more grown kiddos, uh, twenty four and twenty two. Oh. So fun. Okay, so when they look back one day, what is it that that you hope that they see that you modeled really well day to day. Someone who loved them well, someone who took risks in life and someone who modeled a good partner relationship with their spouse. That's so good. Those are so good. What is one belief about motherhood that you have had to consciously unlearn? This thing called balance. I know it does not exist. Doesn't exist. It's a myth. One more thing we're supposed to do. Could not agree more. Okay. Last one. One thing that you've officially outsourced that immediately made your life better. House cleaning is the big one. Yeah, I'll focus on that. House cleaning one hundred percent. I we have paused our house cleaner because we had some construction going on. I always knew that I appreciated her, but now I, I need her. You know how that changes. It's like, uh, I, uh, it's just too painful. I am really good at some things and that is not one of them. Thank you so much for spending time with us all here on the edge. This was so enjoyable. Be sure to check out her book. We've got it logged in the show notes as well. We'll post it on social media. The beautiful mess and her statement of beautiful mess is a beautiful life. I hope you take that with you as you remember all of the hard things that you do day in and day out. Thank you for listening to the Working Moms Redefined podcast. It is not lost on me that you chose to spend time together. Thank you. Let's connect outside of this space on socials. We'd love for you to follow us on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, Pinterest. We've got it all to connect with you. If you feel as if someone in your life could be impacted by this message, feel free to share it. That is the biggest compliment as we part ways together. Remember, you can do hard things.
