Untitled - November 6, 2025
00:00:00 Speaker: Did you forget it was pajama day at school? Did you serve cereal for dinner again? Same girl. Hi, I'm Denise Duncan with working moms Redefined. I've made something for both you and me. It's called nine minutes a day for a lifetime of connection. It's a thirty minute masterclass that gives you permission to drop the guilt and connect with your kids in real ways. With only nine minutes each day, you are doing better than you think. I promise. Let's stop aiming for perfection and instead show up in the nine minutes that mean the most. You can find it now at Working Moms Redefined dot com or in our show notes. Hi, I'm Denise, host of the Working Moms Redefined podcast. Let's join together as we lessen the hold of mom guilt in our lives, thrive in our careers, and raise great kids. You are doing enough. Let us boost your confidence today on this episode of the Working Moms Redefined podcast. When you're a working parent, hobbies seem few and far between. Dare I say, maybe even a luxury. Something that eventually you might get to. But what if having a hobby isn't an extra at all? What if actually having a hobby is a necessity? And one of life's most ways to give you back joy, to remove stress and, dare I say, even connect deeply with yourself, your family, or your partner. It seems asinine. I almost agree with you. However, we're going to dive into it today because these types of topics is what brings us so much joy. And we are going to talk about why hobbies matter for parents who are already stretched thin. How do we find time, even micro moments, if you will, to be able to integrate hobbies into our life so that we can better show up at home, work and in our relationships. Now, ironically, maybe. So. I brought a man to discuss this today, and we're going to beat off that question in the very beginning of well, of course you did, Denise, because the man has time for hobbies. Stop being sexist. AJ Simmons is with us today, and AJ is a husband, a dad, and he's pretty darn smart and holds a PhD in poly sci. But he does promise not to talk too much about politics unless we really want him to, and we really don't want him to. So by day, he's a research director. He turns complex academic jargon into stories that make sense in the real world. He really does the way in which he speaks. It's as if the average Joe could totally understand, and then he would flip a switch, and somebody of his high caliber would also be able to understand. And the cool thing well as well about AJ is that he calls himself a friendly neighborhood Chaos Goblin. He brings kindness and connection and generosity and a little bit of whimsical fun, if you will. Everywhere he goes. He is actually the reason that this discussion got brought up is because AJ believes that every parent should have a hobby, and he's here to help us figure out what what maybe ours are, what that could look like, and how to actually lean into it when he's not with his family. AJ hosts an interview style podcast called Crashing the Political Party, and is an author, and he's preparing to release his upcoming book this month called Space and Time. AJ, thank you for being here. Of course, you make me sound way cooler than I actually am. Okay, we'll call that a win. But nonetheless, what can people expect to walk away after their time together with us today? Hopefully this encouragement that they can find five minutes, um, of their day to do something that releases a little bit of dopamine. Okay, of course you would go with the science of it all. Let's go back to that original question, AJ of sometimes in relationships, maybe not in either one of ours, the mother or the female, or the woman carries more of the load of the family, of the responsibilities, whatever that might look like. And dare I say, they might be thinking, well, of course a man has time for a hobby. I'm going to totally discredit that and say, yet of course a woman could have time for a hobby. What would you say to these people who are like, I don't have time for this? So I think first off, I'm going to tell them I believe them, right? Because when parents say stuff like that, especially moms say stuff like that, you get the eye roll and you're like, come on, you don't have five minutes in your day. And there's a difference between like literally having five minutes and then having the like cognitive emotional, like space to have that five minutes. Right. Like to to engage with something that might require more energy or more thought than what you've got at the end of working full time and wrangling kids and getting somebody to this place at this time, and being held responsible for all the little things that they have that come along with those activities. And so it can easily feel like you don't have five minutes. And so I buy that, I believe it. Uh, they're not going to get any judgment from me, from somebody saying, I don't have five minutes. But I'm also going to say, you got to figure out what is made of glass and what is made of rubber. Like if you visualize in your mind yet all the the balls you're trying to juggle in life, something's made of rubber, right. That you can let bounce. And I'm going to encourage you to maybe find the opportunity to let something bounce sometimes, because your body and your soul and your mind need something that will release the happy chemicals that will release the tension from your body. So I believe you that you don't feel like you have that time. And I want to encourage you to map out everything you've got and go, okay, I may not have that time right now. I may not feel like I have that time, but I think I can get to that time by, you know what, maybe the dishes don't get done tonight or something and recognize that this is a muscle. Start with five minutes. Build that muscle initially. See where that goes. I'm feeling tension in my chest right now one because I feel like you're speaking to me. And two, I feel like I tell myself that all of the balls are glass, and I don't love that, because obviously it's going to take time and or reflection to be able to identify. What if I can't change the glass concept at least? What can I set in a safe space for a while to be able to make time for me? So I'm I'm going to leave that there. I'm also thinking of like inside out in my brain right now of like, hey, can I combine these two feelings to put into it? Like for me, work I label as a hobby, one I can't tell if I label it because it allows me to not have to take the time to figure out a hobby. Don't nod your head if you're watching on our YouTube channel. AJ is like, yes, that is exactly what you're doing, Denise. Or it's I have created businesses where my joys then balance out the work. And again, if you're watching on YouTube, AJ is also nodding his head, which is beautiful. And yet you and I both know. I don't know if I have a hobby. Now, here, AJ, is the question that I would love for you to start laying out. If by chance someone else is similar in nature to yours truly, can you give me a list of hobbies that you might suggest for me? Oh gosh, that's so specific because everybody's different, right? But I think there are little things like, let's say the goal is to get that five minutes to convince yourself that you have that time. Or if you do think like you do, that everything is a glass ball. You know who I think could probably carry some of that? Jeremy. All right. I trust Jeremy with the glass ball. All right. And so I'm guessing listeners of yours have spouses, have friends, have family, have somebody in their life that you can go I, I evaluated, I did I listened and I think everything is made of glass. Well you've got somebody that can like hold some all of that or one of those glass balls for five minutes to give you that time. But I think if we're talking about building that muscle, it's going to depend on who who you are and what you like to do. But let's say you really want to be able to dance and get that out. That's something you really like. A song is three minutes. So let's start with a three minute song and put a three minute song on with the bathroom door closed. So you're not worried about somebody watching you and dancing around? Who cares? Um, or if you want to learn a language or whatever, Duolingo or one of the like other apps or whatever you can do five minutes a day. Hopefully, again, that takes some cognitive load. That takes some mental. I understand that, um, but identify what it is that you're wanting to do and don't view it as like this very big thing, right? Like, again, if you want to talk about learning a language as a hobby, I want to be able to read Shakespeare in Spanish. Okay. Let's start with being able to read, like, I don't know, a children's book in Spanish and work up to that. So break it into smaller parts and understand that, like you gotta get there. Maybe let's start with that five minutes. And I would also encourage folks, whatever it is that you're trying to, to build up and figure out as a hobby. You don't have to be afraid of being like perfect or an expert at it right away. Be brave enough to sup friends. I love that. Be brave enough to suck first. I also think maybe, as I'm listening to you, that maybe I'm not labeling some of the things I enjoy as a hobby. I love baking brownies so that I can eat them. I could say that that's a hobby, although I know that it benefits those because then I like to give them to people. I would say if we go back to that question of people thinking that they don't have time necessarily consider how much time we allow ourselves to scroll social media. Imagine if we took ten minutes of that scrolling and chose to find a hobby, invest into ourselves through a hobby, which then that goes down my mind of age. Do you think sometimes people don't think that they are worthy of making time for themselves to have a hobby? Absolutely. And I think that mom guilt, dad guilt, parent guilt, adult guilt, whatever term you want to use for it is very real. And that that interferes with people feeling like they can like, look, I have a responsibility to do my job and to be this perfect parent and to be this perfect community, you know, community member and do all of these things. And so I don't have time because I can't I have ten more things to do on my to do list. If you don't do stuff that brings you joy, it's gonna catch up with you. The body keeps the score. Such a good book. We talk about that in episode five with the therapist, Sarah Simanek. Have you read that book? Mhm. Have you ever read that book? It's called The Body Keeps Score. Just a phrase I know is out there that I think is useful to me. It's so true. And it literally that book explains it's kind of dark people. Hey, maybe that maybe that should be one of your maybe listeners that should be one of your hobbies is like learning about the body. Okay, AJ, we're going down. I think that this is really this is really enlightening for me to think. I think I've been labeling some things wrong. Do you know what I have found so much joy in lately? Learning about the female hormonal cycle and the effects on that. I now better understand why I am raging at times, and why other times I'm like, give me all of the cinnamon pie crust pastry things from HyVee. I freaking love them. It's usually two days before I start my cycle. That has been so life giving. Can I call that a hobby? Yes. You're learning something. You're doing something. Hobbies are things that feed your soul, or feed your mind, or feed your body in some way. And so yeah, learning is a hobby and it's an important one. Right. Like it keeps like there's science around this. Around like your brain learning new things. It's keeping those muscles active. And it helps you stay healthy. So yeah that's a hobby. When was the last time that you learned something new? Uh, before we jumped on here. A new academic article came out from somebody that I follow on Twitter, and I was like, oh, that's new information for me. So I love that. And I love the richness behind being a forever learner. And I think this is a great reminder for so many of us to take a beat and to not necessarily one. Tell yourself that you don't have a hobby, but to evaluate in your life what actually you are doing for you that also maybe benefits somebody else. But I have had this itch and when I was in fourth age I was I did cross stitching and I hated it at the time because it was something that I had to do. And now I kind of miss it. And literally probably a month ago, I asked my mom. I was like, hey, do you still have any of that cross stitch stuff? And she goes, no. And she had hundreds of spools of this thread. And I'm thinking, you know what? What is stopping me from going to go get that? Me I am stopping me from getting a little kit that whatever the case might be, I really love those little families. Like they take a photo. Yes. And you know what I'm talking about. Where they cross stitch the family little portrait. But I really want to get into one where your passion comes from for writing. And two, so you can decide where you go first, how you and your wife have navigated the conversation around hobbies. Um, I think the second one first, I think we've just been intentional about it. We with four kids, including a set of twins that are going to be turning four soon. Uh, I think we both got to a point of like, not in in hobbies, and that I think catching up with both of us and having conversations around, like, we need to be doing things like the like that we enjoy that bring us life, that get us outside of either, you know, work mode or parent mode, and to something of like who we are, because it's real easy being a working parent in the modern world to lose yourself and hobbies help you stay grounded in who you are. They help. You can scratch itches that you need to scratch to feel fulfilled, and they help you learn new things and they help you be a better spouse and parent and community member and all of these things. And so we've had some intentional conversations, um, over the, you know, past couple of years of like making time and prioritizing things, uh, and knowing that we need to do those because they help us be better at all of our other roles. So good. So what are a couple of your wife's whose name is Val? Hobbies. Uh, so she is a librarian, so I don't think it's a shock to find that she likes to read a ton. Um, and she also, um, enjoys Zumba when she can. She likes dancing and being in community and that sort of stuff. Um, she also likes to bake and crochet and puzzles. She also likes puzzles. What do you see in your four kids? Benefit wise when you guys are partaking in hobbies? So I think in a couple of different ways, like our hobbies allow us to again, get energy out that we need to get out, whatever that energy is, and then that allows us to be present with our kids. Um, I think that in the case of, you know, say Zumba for Val or going to the gym and like lifting for me that then like, I have more energy to be like an engaged parent. Um, so both of us, I think being active keeps us active and kind of keeps that moment of rolling with the kids where it's like, oh yeah, we're gonna go run around the park, or we're going to play in the yard, or we're gonna wrestle and play hide and seek and do all that stuff. So it literally gives us like physical energy, but it helps us, I also think, gain confidence and feel like fulfilled as people as well. And then it's cool stuff that like our kids can see and and show show off as well and kind of get some confidence themselves or just feeling good. I was with my daughter at the local library where two of my books are at, and her friend was there and she was like, hey, come look at this. These are my dad's books. And so like, she got to, um, be very excited about me and like, I don't know, show me off, I guess, to a friend of hers. And I could just see that that was something that she really like, that she she lit up. So, like, both emotionally and physically. And then I think socially, I guess for our kids, like there's all sorts of positives from our hobbies for our kids. Today, as I was getting ready for our interview today, Sydney, eight years old, she came in and she was like, she knows Thursdays are my podcast days. She said, sweetie, nope, that's not right. She said, mommy. And I said, sweetie. She said, who are you on the podcast with today? And I told her and she goes, AJ, that is Prince dad. And she literally said he did. You know that he wrote a book at the library in Minden? And I said, how did you know he wrote a book? And then at the library in Minden. And she said, because there's a local author board and his face is on it, then of course, I'm like, picking up. I'm like, okay, here's my chance. And I said, yes. Writing is a hobby of his. And he wrote a book and she goes, puzzles are a hobby of mine. I wonder if I could publish because I used the word publish a puzzle. And I said, we absolutely can. We can put Modge Podge on it and put it in a frame and all of that stuff. But because AJ, you chose to find a hobby, you have given permission for others to find what they've loved. So go back to that first part of that question as to how did you take that first step, and how did you know that writing was going to be your hobby and passion? Um, I've known this since I was a little kid. I used to write and create stories when I was a little kid, including drawing, and I'm really terrible at drawing. Um, I would, like, animate my own, illustrate illustrate my own, uh, books as a kid, um, and I used to really love creative writing. And as I got further into academia, it became less creative writing and more academic writing, which is mentally a lot of fun, but maybe not as good for the soul. Um, and so, you know, a dissertation is a book when you get, you know, when you get a PhD, you gotta write a dissertation. And I wrote a dissertation. I wrote a book, uh, and that was my first one being like, hey, I've done that. I've done something that I wanted to do since I was a little kid. And I was like, yeah, but this is an academic one. And, uh, and it sat in the back of my mind of trying to get back to creative writing post PhD. But then children happened. Uh, and then the pandemic happened, and I had a little bit more free time. And I started trying to get back to creative writing, and I kept getting like halfway through stories and I would stop, like, through books, like, there are and I'm not exaggerating, probably a half dozen books that are about halfway done, uh, on my computer and I could never get through writing a book. And then we had the twins, and I was barely hanging on to be able to, like, read, let alone great. Um, but then I had an idea that had been sitting in my head for years, and I was like, all right, I think this is how I can break this idea out. And I'd been reading a lot of biographies because that's just easy to pick up and kind of lay down. Um, and so that's how I did my first book, as I wrote it, as like a fictional biography of a person. And that was super helpful. Um, and so I found a way to write that utilized, I guess, my professional muscles in writing to act as, like this transition. And then it proved to me that I could write a academic book with my dissertation and a fictional book with my first one. So darn cool, so darn cool. And people can buy your books right now on Amazon. I just was pulling it up. Yes, that is correct. You're so cool. That's just Amazon. You know, you don't have to give your money to to them, bookshop, Barnes and Noble wherever you get your books from online. Um. They're there. I don't know if that's always a good one again. The first one was like being able to prove that I could write a book. The second one was trying to figure out what I wanted to write. It's a collection of short stories, which I think is, again, easier for folks that are, to this whole point of this, trying to maybe pick up a hobby of like, you don't have to commit to a whole book. Um, so if you are attempting to read as a hobby, there's other short story collections. I just want to point that out. But you could start with mine and then tell me about your book that has really seen this month. Oh. Uh. So that is called space and time. Um, and it's. One of my, uh, one of the people that has read it and offered comments on it, described it as if I'm remembering correctly, delightfully chaotic. Uh, but it is about two, two people that meet and they start trying to fall in love, or they feel like they're falling in love. And then every time they do, the story resets and it becomes like this different setting, uh, the different world, they have different backgrounds, are slightly different people. And that just keeps happening over and over again. And finally they get annoyed and they end up on an epic adventure full of joy and sorrow and fun. And let's see, uh, there's knights and there's time travel and there's rom com, you know, uh, adventures. What do they call it, like romantic trips. There are. There's a time travel game show. There's a drunk wizard in there. Um, just all sorts of fun. And I think a conclusion that a confrontation might be the better way, in the conclusion that I don't think anybody can predict if you do. Um. I'm sorry. That means you've read my mind, and that's got to be pretty scary for you. But it's intentionally designed to be fun. We get into serious stuff in there as well, but I try to do it in the safe and kind of easy way. Um, because it's designed for in all of my writing, is designed for folks that don't feel like they have time to read. Perfect. Wow, I can't wait. We will put a link soon in the show notes once it becomes live, so that people can have access to really implementing a new hobby, potentially I love this how fun, how fun. I think sometimes telling ourselves that we don't have time for a hobby is a myth. Yes, to a certain degree. But you did a great job, AJ of validating like you're right, you don't have time. We would have to make time for this. Okay, so it's choices. Is there another myth that maybe some of us are telling ourselves that is actually not true about hobbies? I mean, I go back to the like, you don't have to be great at it. It just has to be something that, um, you get something from, whether it is joy, whether it is, you know, proving yourself you can do hard things, which I know is a reoccurring comment on here. Um, what? Like whatever you need to. There you go. As you said that, AJ, I said the kids and I should write a book. You can do hard things, a children's book. Like, literally as you're writing that and I when you said that, I'm like, I'm if you're watching on YouTube, I, I wrote it down. And the thing is, now that I said it out loud, now I'm freaking accountable for it. Okay. And that's something that terrifies me. I think I've learned that I can't talk about something until I'm like, on a downward slope and wrapping it up because I like, say it and it's like, yeah, never mind. I don't want it now. I've told you about it. I don't need to write it so I can relate to that. Um, but yeah, I think that people have the sense that they need to be great at it and great at it right away. Um, and I think that another myth is like, if it doesn't come easy to you right away, like, you can stop, like again, be be brave enough to, to suck at it. And, you know, I know that the people that listen to this are are brave, right? Whether they are our parents, step parents, aunts, uncles, teachers, like if they've got kids in their life. It's scary making a choice to have kids in your life. And yet folks are making that choice. So I know that they're brave enough to to do that. So, you know, don't worry about being great. Don't worry about it. So much of our society is about getting money out of everything we do. Don't worry about if it makes you money. Worry about if like if you can like don't lose money on it. But don't worry about that. Just worry about whether it's paying you back in some other way. Whatever that itch that you need scratched is. Um, and I guess the last one that I would say is like, not all hobbies are going to look the same. Um, you know, I read as a hobby, my wife reads as a hobby. That doesn't mean you have to read as a hobby. Maybe a hobby for you is learning to paint, or is learning to garden or whatever that is, like. Figure that out for what you're doing. I don't care if every other person in your life that you know that has a hobby is doing X. If you need to do, why do why? My friend? I keep writing down all my ideas of things that I want to do now, and oddly enough, I need to rethink one, because, I mean, you kind of called me out without knowing that you called me out of it. Doesn't have to make you money. What I can as an Enneagram three, achieve joy and joy. Be enough. What? What? Very very cool. AJ such a neat perspective. And I think something that so many of us needed to be reminded on before we transition into the next topic that I want to talk about, is there anything left out hanging that you want to discuss or wrap up in regards to hobbies specifically? So I think this is for the spouses that are listening of somebody in your life that make the time for them to have a hobby, like take something off of the plate of your loved one that is taking on too much. Tell them that you are doing it intentionally. Don't ask for homework. You're not a child asking for homework. homework assignment, or a way of how can I help? No, you are being a spouse that should be carrying some of the weight of the household. So whatever something is that you can take off the plate of your spouse, tell them I'm doing that. And for that time, I want you to go and do this thing that you said you want to do. You want to learn how to paint. You want to learn how to dance. You want to just read for relaxation. You want to go watch, I don't know whatever TV show that you've been meaning to watch for years, like, yep, I'm doing that. And it can be something as easy as, like, dinner. I assure you that there are easy dinners that you that you could make for a week or two and say, hey, I know your favorite author just dropped a new book. I know the new season of insert show came out, I'm gonna Make dinner. And during that time, head off, go up, go as far away as you can from the responsibilities. I will, um, Furniture in front of the door to the stairs or whatever to keep the kids away. I will take this task on and then when you're done, you know, like, if it's dinner. Dinner is on top of it. Done. You don't have to worry about making it. And food also just tastes better when somebody else makes it. And you've got that quiet time to do whatever it is or not. Loud time. Maybe it is again, putting on music and dancing around. Maybe that's what you want to do. Um, put the effort in to intentionally create space for your spouse to have a hobby and be very clear in communicating that that's the case and make that a reasonably hard boundary of like, no, I understand you want to help with dinner tonight? I can plot the frozen lasagna in the oven. I got it like, I don't need your help on that. And I'm going to cover homework and distract the kids while you're up doing whatever you're doing for that hour that that's cooking. Um, and keep your word on it. This is not like a list of things to get around to. I live in a one hundred and twenty year old house. I assure you I have projects to get around to eventually. This is a glass ball for you that you're making space for your spouse to have a hobby that brings them some sort of, like I said, joy, sense of achievement, whatever they need out of it. Wow, very well done. First of all, I think so many ladies are like, well, I'm sending this episode to my partner. Second sorry guys, ladies, he is taken. Sorry about that. And third, thank you. Thank you for giving on behalf of all women mothers especially. Thank you for giving space in knowing that that we need that and that we're not going to probably ask for it. Faults I understand of my own and I'll speak only for me now. I'm not good at asking for what I want, let alone what I need. And so for you to take that on for Val is beautiful. Which leads me into the next discussion as to why we can't have a man on this podcast and not talk about your perspective of us ladies as working moms. And so as a whole. And or you can apply to Val your choice. Maybe it's the same. What do you think working moms underestimate themselves the most about? So I think there's a couple of things. But one that comes to mind is how much skills of theirs translate. Um, so women often volunteer more than men do, for example. And yet when you ask somebody that's volunteered and put on community events and, you know, like, oh, you want to apply for this job and you're telling me you don't want to because or you're not sure if you're qualified because you've never led a project? What do you mean you've never led a project? Like you put on a community festival. You did x, Y, and Z. Like so. Understanding that their skills can translate in many ways, I think is one thing that, um, is underestimated there, uh, that they need to think about. Uh, I find myself very strangely having these sort of conversations with, with friends of mine that are women of like, yeah, you can do. What do you mean you haven't done that? Yes. You have. Um, I think that's one of the big ones. Um, I think going back to what you were just saying there about being able to to communicate and needing to communicate needs and wants, uh, because folks aren't mind readers. And you have to. You're worth it. You're worth saying, I need an hour. I need, you know, thirty minutes a day. Whatever it is to do something that is not working is not being apparent before nine o'clock at night, when maybe they're exhausted after a long day. In order for me to ask, for instance, for thirty minutes, I really, as do so many, need to believe that it's okay to take thirty minutes. When you killed me, when you said that's outside of work. Because in my mind, sometimes time away from the kids is, quote, my time. But we all know that that is not the case. And again, deflection at its finest. Tell me how to get better at that age in realizing that it's okay. I guess it's something that I can relate to. It's really easy in what I do for things to blend work and not work. If I'm reading an academic book or an academic article or working on something academic of mine like, it's really easy, especially working from home. So being able to be like, well, the kids are asleep and I just need thirty minutes on this thing. And it's honestly taken a vow to the point I was saying earlier about the role of spouses in this of kind of pointing out like, that's not work, that's not or that's work. That's not a hobby. Um, you know, if I say I'm going up to my office, what are you going up to your office to do? If I don't readily say I'm reading a book or I'm working on this book or whatever that I'm writing. She's like, hmm, you're. I know you got that. Like you're trying to wrap up that article. You sure about that? And so there there were times like that, especially, uh, before I got better at this. I was tracking my work time and then putting that. Yeah. Uh huh. Uh huh. Uh, I can see for those that are, uh, watching that Denise pointing to herself there to just sit there and be like. that was fifty hours last week of work. Obviously, we should be self-sufficient adults in this and be able to have our own boundaries and sit there and be like, I know I just need thirty minutes on this thing, but I'm not going to do that. But it's really hard and it magically becomes a little bit easier when I'm working outside of work hours on something. I have to text Denise and be like, I worked outside of work hours. It makes it easier. Like, well, I don't want to have to sit in that, like, I don't know, shameful text that I did that, so I'm not going to do it. Um, so I think that it's again about building out the muscle. This goes back to the five minutes at a time kind of thing. Right? That these are muscles that we have to build up and whatever that means for you of if you have to even sit there and be like as awkward and embarrassing as this is, I'm going to insert hobby here in front of my spouse. I can see that I'm doing it. Or like I said, having to acknowledge and have a friend that you're like, yep, when we work outside of work hours, I, we have to tell each other that or whatever, um, is helpful. I just came up with this idea for me. I think it would probably be beneficial if I logged time for my hobby on my Google Cal, and then invite my sister as the attendee so that she can text me and then say, hey, are you doing XYZ? I think that would work. Well, yeah, there's actually an academic book that talks about this similarly where if you're trying to be academic, that's doing research that you need to intentionally put that on your calendar, that you need to say, nope, don't care that the president of the university wants to meet with me on Tuesdays. I spend two hours working on my research. They want to meet with me during that time. I'm not available. So putting it on your calendar and treating it like a commitment, uh, that you have to keep to yourself and that somebody can see and and text. You'd be like, what page number are you on right now? Denise? You said you gotta read what page? What book? Tell me about it. What's the sentence that you're reading right now? Right. Well, that how can we. Gosh, these conversations are so good. How can I or can I count like coaching, I love volleyball, I love empowering kids. Put the two together. That's coaching. Mhm. Can I count that. But also while realizing like it's benefiting the kids. And if my intent here I'm talking myself through it. If I, if my intent and I think AJ you said it best when you watched both your wife and me coach volleyball I think last year you said I'm not so sure who is more excited or having more fun. The two women who are jumping enthusiastically on the side of the court, or the kids playing like, I can count that, right? Yes. Um, and that's one that when you ask me about, like, hobbies I should have included, because I do think that coaching volleyball in particular is something that is good for her soul. Um, but I also think it has to do with, like, too much of a good thing, right? Like. Cherry pie is pretty good. But if I eat it every meal, I might not be good, right? A hobby can creep up, and it can start to dominate your life and start to feel like a commitment that no longer makes it something fun or something that nourishes your soul. So yes, I'm going to say that coaching volleyball is a hobby that is counts. Checks the box. Uh, if you're coaching five teams at once and ones that, like, are like outside your community and you're saying yes to every opportunity and it becomes overkill, I might gently ask, like, are you doing that the right way? Is that still a hobby? But yes, you two, you and Val, it is super fun to watch you too, coach. I saw this this past weekend. I was coaching fall volleyball right now, and there's a little little girl that's been struggling to get it over the net during matches. And she did. And Val lost it in the best way possible. And I was talking with her afterwards and she was like I was trying to rein it in. I was like, why? People should see that. People should see that you are excited and you are happy and and have joy for when the kids are doing well, because the kids saw that and that was so good for them to see an adult that is not just their parent celebrating them. And like I could see the reaction on people in the crowd and they thought it was like this great moment as well. So like, do your hobbies get joy from them and don't let people kill you joy. But yes, coaching is a hobby. It's one that you're good at and it's one that I see you get joy from. Mm. Thank you for saying that. You and Val have had some really good conversations. You can tell just and in the way that Val talks about you and your guys's conversations. That takes work for kids full time jobs. How do you make time to have these conversations? I think, uh, intentionality. Right. Um, it so much of our life right now is scheduled, and I haven't even ever thought of it this way until you made this point. Like, even if it's not officially on the calendar, it's on the calendar. It's just not on there in writing to have these conversations. Usually after getting the kids in bed and knocking out kind of obvious things like picking up the house and little things like that, it is at least a check in before we're heading off to. I'm heading up to right. She's heading to to read or do whatever she's working on, um, as well. And so it's usually part of our like nightly routine. And so it's not on our calendar, but it is like this. Okay. All right. We're through the obvious things that we need to do after bed like this is before we sit down and watch something together, or do something together, or separate and do one of our hobbies. Um, there's this check in point that I think is just a muscle that we've built up, but it's not on our calendar. If you need it to be on your calendar, put it on your calendar to have the fifteen minute check in, uh, with your spouse every day or, okay, we need to do X, Y, and Z like these harder conversations, like put it on the calendar and make sure that you both have the the space and time to think about it ahead of time and that you make that for yourselves to, to together, come together, talk about it. Thank you for that reminder. Very, very good. This conversation has been fun. Like this entire time I am jotting down thoughts as to, okay, I want to do this, I want to do that. And I know that other people are like ready to go as well. So pick a hobby, maybe change the way that you are viewing your joys or your loves. Now to say you know what? I am doing a hobby and yet I would like to do a little bit more or a little bit different, or to set an end goal and then work backwards from that. Is there any like, trendy hobby right now that you are observing or noticing that you're kind of like, oh, I kind of wanna jump on this bandwagon? Oh, that I don't know about. I, I'm a little stuck in my ways. You do a lot of sitting in our society these days. And so I know that there's like a trend to get moving, whether it's like pickleball, um, or dancing, um, something that gets you up and moving, um, are things that I could encourage other people to do. Um, I or, you know, I know that, like, we're heading towards the holiday season and the start of the year. And a lot of folks make New Year's resolutions around going to the gym or whatever. If that works for you, there's that. I think something that gets you out of your comfort zone, whether that is moving, dancing, pickleball, whatever that is. Um, being creative. If you're very functional person, doing something silly, if you're very serious, something lighthearted heading to the holiday season, it should be the cozy time of year. So do something cozy as well. Again, puzzles, crocheting? Uh, needlepoint. Like, if that's something. Especially if you don't if you wouldn't normally do that or if that's making you slightly uncomfortable or that's not a skill that you have, like use your hobby to poke a little bit at yourself and push yourself a little bit. Um, I need to maybe take my own advice and not just do the same hobbies I've been doing, like writing. I'm already starting on the next book, and then this one's not even out. Maybe I should do something else in the middle. What is the answer to that? What's the something else? I don't know what that would be. Honestly, here I am, encouraging people to, uh, have more hobbies. I don't know, I think I would like to maybe get back to brewing beer. I was brewing beer at home. Um, because I could do that after the kids went to bed. And it's honestly like one night of work, largely. And then it sits for a while, and then you bottle it another night of work. It's easy to space out. Um, so maybe getting back to that would be good. Oh, fun, I love it. Okay. Lightning round. Here we go. Coffee or tea? Tea. Really? I'm surprised by that. Sweet tea. Unsweet tea. Hot tea. Like English breakfast tea. I make my tea like a British person. Like milk? Sugar? Yeah. Um, I do not like coffee. I've never like coffee. I like the smell of coffee. Um, but I do not like coffee. Okay. Early bird or night owl? Um, some sort of permanently exhausted pigeon. Because I do both. Um, I like to get up and get things done early in the morning, but I find my creativity is best when the house is quiet. And after I've had, like, the day to ruminate a little bit in the back of my mind of whatever I was working on before. So that does lead to me having not great, great sleep schedule. Um, but yeah, so unfortunately neither I love it. Or both. Actually, I guess we'll do both. Book or podcast. You can't you can't pick both. Um, like, as in writing a book or hosting a podcast or like listening or reading. Oh, let's do those. And second, because this would be a hobby, I'm gonna go with reading. Okay. Beach or mountains? Mountains. Easy. Solo hobby or group hobby. Ooh. are so low. I think I have to extrovert a lot with my job and I am naturally an introvert, so I think I would go the solo route. Hobbies are something that each and every one of you are deserving of, and I need to hear that just as much as the next person. So AJ, thank you for making what I totally think is not a discussed enough topic. Thank you for bringing it to the light, sharing such awesome perspectives, giving us ideas and dare I say, permission. I'm going to send you. I can't decide here. Here's what I'm going to do I can't, I think I'm going to I'm gonna go I'm gonna get some stuff for cross-stitching. I think I'm going to do that. And then my first one will be a cute little ornament of our family. I'm going to put our family picture into Jack ChatGPT, and I'm going to say, give me an outline for a cross stitch, give me the thread colors that I need and the size of I think that's what I'm gonna do. And I'll send you a picture because accountability is key. Thank you for that and for the gift that you've given. So many of us in realizing that hobbies can only be five minutes. So awesome job. Happy to help. Remember, choosing something for you is hard. Choosing a hobby is hard. And yet you can do hard things and you're worth it. Thank you for listening to the Working Moms Redefined podcast. It is not lost on me that you chose to spend time together. Thank you. Let's connect outside of the space on socials. We'd love for you to follow us on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, Pinterest. We've got it all to connect with you! If you feel as if someone in your life could be impacted by this message, feel free to share it. That is the biggest compliment as we part ways together. Remember, you can do hard things.
