Untitled - October 13, 2025
00:00:00 Speaker: I see you doing all the things, holding all the pieces. It's a lot. Here's the truth. You don't need more time to be the mom you want to be. You need more connection. And it starts with nine minutes a day. Hi, I'm Denise Talcott with the Working Moms Redefined podcast. I've created a masterclass that tells you exactly how to build deep, lasting connection with your kids in the middle of your busy life. You can start today at Working Moms Redefined dot com or click our link in the show notes. Remember, you can do hard things, but you don't have to do them alone. Hi, I'm Denise, host of the Working Moms Redefined podcast. Let's join together as we lessen the hold of mom guilt in our lives, thrive in our careers, and raise great kids. You are doing enough. Let us boost your confidence today on this episode of the Working Moms Redefined podcast. Do you remember when you first got your cell phone? For me, I was fifteen. My cell phone number is still the same number when I was fifteen years old. I remember my mom turning around in the car giving me the cell phone. It already had a pink glittery cover. It of course was a flip phone. It was awesome. There wasn't a lot of training at that point in our lives to learn how to best use technology and devices. Now be it. There were definitely not as many dangers as there are today as well. But thankfully there is so much more training. And on today's episode of the Working Moms Redefined podcast, we are bringing in an expert whose name is Tracy. Tracy Foster is the co-founder and executive director of Screen Sanity. In addition to all of that, she's a wife and she's a mother of two. You guys, she's so cool. She contributes to The Wall Street Journal and was chosen as one of Ingram's forty under forty in twenty twenty. Tracy, it's like you're royalty. That's amazing. No, not at all. Thank you so much for having me. You're welcome. What's really neat is that you have spent fifteen years of developing different strategies for growth, and an understanding about how children's play affects their social, their emotional, their cognitive development and some of the world's leading organizations. You get to talk through that with, and you're choosing to spend time now to teach parents and caregivers how to navigate this new era of technology. It's it's so nice to have people like you in this industry to be able to help us, like me, really not know where to start. Sidney, who is eight, got her laptop this year through the school. Of course, she was super jazzed, but it was almost like I was shooting from the hip on how to handle things. And so this episode today we are going to educate parents, caregivers, those who are really wondering the same questions I am. And so, Tracy, what can listeners expect to take away from our time together today? Well, I wish that they could take away a staples easy button of just, oh, I listen to this podcast and now I don't have problems anymore and they can't get that. But I really hope that they leave with a sense of number one, that they're not alone. And number two, that there are practical things that they can do that will help their family. This is not going to be a situation where there's this fifty item to do list, and you have to do all of them, or else you're falling short. It's just talking about some places where you can start and sharing a little bit of information that we hope helps you feel like you're not just shooting from the hip. Call that a win. I love when we can listen to something and by the end of it, be able to implement things the next day before we get to those tips and tricks. Why did you create this, Tracy? What inspired you to really get and start screen sanity? Yeah, well, there were three of us who were moms and also professionals. So at that point, this was twenty seventeen when we started to think about this. We had kids ranging in age from two to twenty two. And the three of us, I came from a background in business strategy. As you mentioned, my co-founder, Krista, was a teacher. My co-founder, Brenda was a therapist, and we were seeing these issues in both the professional world and our personal world. And we actually never, ever, ever, ever, ever intended to start something. We just started to notice that there was this problem. Krista started a private Facebook group, um, to be like, hey, are you guys struggling with this? What do you, you know, how are you handling it? And practically overnight, it exploded to three thousand people. Like, everyone just kept being like, can I invite so-and-so? Can I invite so-and-so? And so we really just realized this is not something that we are the only ones struggling with. Everyone's trying to figure this out. There is no playbook that's being passed down from the generations about how to handle technology, because it's so new. And so we started convening groups just to have conversations. We talked to hundreds and hundreds and thousands of parents and realized we do have some things that we can share. Um, do Congress and tech companies need to make some changes? Yes. But we felt so strongly that we can't wait for that to happen and we need to start doing some things. So we pitched this idea to all the big names you could possibly think about, and they were like, that really should exist, but you guys need to do it. And we were like, uh, so it's been a bit of a calling and now you're doing it. I love that you have a motto called less screen time. More dream time. Oh, it's so powerful. What does it mean to you personally? Yeah. Do you know that feeling that you get sometimes when you take a shower or you're driving and you just have zen space or flow? That's what it means to me. is that you can actually. Screens can be amazing. We're not anti-technology. Maximize the benefits, minimize the side effects. But we can become so saturated by it that we miss out on the places to just dream. I'm going to share a quick quote from Lin-Manuel Miranda, who's one of my favorites, but he says this quote it was in GQ in twenty sixteen, but I think it really underscores a lot of how we think about this concept of dream time, he says. It's good to be bored. Time alone is the gift of self entertainment, and that is the font of creativity, because there's nothing better to spur creativity than a blank page or an empty bedroom. I have fond memories of pretending ninjas were going to come into every room of the house and thinking to myself, what's the best move to defend myself? How will I home alone? These ninjas, you know, like Kevin from Home Alone, I was learning to create incredible flights of fancy, but in multiple situations, he said, gosh, if screens like this existed when I was a kid, I never would have developed the ability to do what I needed to do to then go on and write work such as Hamilton, because it just steals so much of that creativity and space. I'm imagining what our kids are thinking about when a screen is not in place, and I will be the first to admit. Tracy, I often find we have Friday Pizza movie night and they very much look forward to that. And I know that part of that is because they are able to tune out the rest of the world, and they zone in on this movie, which is great. One night a week, I can't imagine it happening all of the time because that dream time then goes away. Yeah, it's scary because think of all of the wonderful ideas that you have thought of, whether the shower time was the perfect example when you're not distracted. And for our house, Hudson is singing at the top of his lungs, and Sydney is figuring out her next hairstyle in the shower. Dream time doesn't have to happen when you're sleeping. It's really Creativeness. And in addition to that concept of how do we get kids to ultimately be okay with being bored? What are some of the other key ways that you are really helping families bring that mission to life? Yeah, so Screen Saver provides three main things trainings, tools, and tips. Our biggest passion is to help each one of us moms and dads in the trenches, or grandmas and grandpas, aunties, whoever we are, to not be navigating this on our own, because the biggest barrier in this is other kids around us, right? Like your school gave Sidney the laptop, that wasn't something you necessarily chose. Or all of a sudden, when Sidney or Hudson's friends start having certain apps, that's what puts the pressure on. And so we provide these different resources to help make it so that people can create new cultural norms. We have cultural norms around so many other things, like it's polite to open a door. These are put in place because it's intentional. How can we do these things well? And we just haven't. It's come so fast and furious. We haven't as a society created that. So some of our resources, the tips are things like podcasts or when we do media that you can just consume our social media tools or different resources we have on our website, you can download to help with video games or things like that. And then trainings are in in more in depth in person ideally events. So things like our parent night kit where any school, any church, any community group can come together, have a we say you just hit play. It's, you know, totally packaged product for you, but then you can start to get a little bit of education, but also conversations with others around you so that you start to realize you're not the only one who wants to change the way that this is happening. And you're not the only one that is really dealing with some of these, dare I say, addiction to technology that our kids are experiencing. And so what are some of the biggest concerns that parents really come to you with? Yeah, I mean, I think it's all of the above. What's really interesting on this topic is most of the time, parents will come to us when they've experienced some harm. I just found out that my child was selling their ADHD drugs on Snapchat. Right? Or I just found out that my kiddo, sometimes as young as age nine, was looking at hardcore pornography. What do I do? So there are all sorts of different harms that people come forward. But I think what's best is when people are able to come preventatively. You know, when your kid is in elementary school and you're you can never start too young, right? Actually, tech issues, tech decisions start probably the day they're a newborn. Am I going to show their face on social media? What information am I going to give? Am I the one who's going to share that announcement? Or did my my mom or mother in law scoop me on it? Right. You start even already having conversations around some of those norms. And so I think the earlier that you can come, the better. Ideally five years before you think you're going to give your kid a phone is one of the best times. You don't think it, but that's when you can get to a point of prevention, which is worth what an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure because you can set the expectations for your kids. You can have the conversations with other moms and dads without it seeming judgy, because no one has made those choices yet. So you can start to say, hey, what are you guys thinking? We're starting to think about this. So yeah, five years before they are getting a phone. Brilliant. When I if you're watching on YouTube, you probably saw my reaction like in my face. It's like, Holy crap, right? Because we're there. I just did. You know the quick math. Sydney is now not getting a phone until at least she's thirteen. And because that not only the five year thing, but it's like, what are why are we giving them access to things when we as kids should not have had access to even the things, the little things that we did? And I'm not asking that question. Please. Judgment by any means. It's having the conversation around, what do we do? Because now it's here. This technology is happening off the mic before you record it. And hopefully we get to this later, you know, where is a safe place to put technology for kids. And again, I'll ask that question, but What are some really quick, maybe small fixes that I can do as a parent that to reduce the screen time because it's already there and some of us feel as if it's a necessity day in and day out. What can I do or what should I do? Or studies like? Where do I start? Yeah, well, I think one of the things is you can just downgrade in a good way, the type of screen time that you have. So we can I'm sure we'll talk more about other tips and strategies for reducing screen time overall, but I understand we're busy. I mean, once this has gotten integrated into our life, we're busy parents. We have to cook dinner. We have to get the laundry done. Things like that. Now, first of all, we can say overall, how can you include your kids, right? So you could say, okay, great, give them a job in some of those things. That's actually very identity forming. But I'll say if you're looking for some of the quick wins instead of giving them a tablet, give both of your siblings an opportunity to watch the TV together. That's in and of itself a huge difference. Number one, screens are healthier the bigger and the further they are away. It opens accountability. It makes them more likely they'll be more likely to like depending on their age. Like build with Legos while they're watching a show on a TV. Whereas if they have like a phone or a tablet, it's like it becomes an extension of their body. But also, you mentioned you have two kids. If Hudson and Sydney actually have to choose together what they watch that's causing, you know, negotiation and then they're co-viewing if they're laughing at something, they're laughing together, they're more likely to develop some inside jokes. Another way of kind of downgrading the intensity of the screen time is to go to audiobooks. You know, anything that you can give. And I'd say this even with something like TV, if you can give your kids longer form content, if you know it's going to be twenty thirty minutes, you can give them something that's actually that length that they can absorb into a true story that is less, uh, dopamine hits than having them watch, you know, thirty thousand TikTok videos back to back. So those are just a couple ways, um, that you can, you know, go bigger and go far and make them do it with someone else, or go audio rather than video. So why's I when you were talking about laughing together, it made me think of when my sister and I were growing up. We would binge watch all of the friends episodes. We would do that every Thanksgiving and Christmas break, and it brought me back to that moment because it's connection and we have so many inside jokes now around that, and we don't suck as people. Even though we watched a lot of TV during those breaks, you know? No. And you guys probably like I when my kids were younger and we loved dude. Perfect. Are you familiar with the YouTuber? Dude perfect. What I loved was when you can bring screen time to life, so my kids would want to do perfect and then it'd be like, okay, great. Sometimes we talk about like one to one. If you've done twenty minutes of screen time, try to go outside if you can, weather permitting for twenty minutes, you know, or maybe make it two times as long, whatever you want it to be, but okay, hey, we're going to watch this. But then let's see, they just did these fun tricks with ping pong balls. What can you guys do? And watching them bring that to life. So with friends, you guys were older, but you're laughing. You're doing these things that are making it come into the real world. Just yesterday with one of my kids, he was throwing something and we started laughing about Buddy the Elf when he had the snowball fight. So there's absolutely like mantras and meaning and identity that can come from these shared inside jokes and moments. And that is really special. While realizing that screen sanity is not saying no to technology and no to screens, I think maybe sometimes a perception is anyone that's going to teach me about technology is going to tell me it's bad, don't do it. Well, that's not you at all. It's how do we navigate a life now that is going to be here and continue moving forward. But it's hard, and especially for those parents, that maybe their kids have used screens more than they would like, and they want to phase them out of the house. It's hard. It is hard. How can parents who have already gotten into the habit to avoid the overwhelm go about switching out the tablet in other ways, like you mentioned to something else? Yeah. Can I emphasize first? It's hard. So, like you said, I'm not trying to say this is easy, but it is worth it. So it somewhat depends on the age of your kids. If your kids are older, one of the top recommendations that we have is starting with family values. Having this is going to take a while to implement, but starting with one that says, hey, maybe go to your favorite restaurant, or you do a bonfire fire pit in your backyard and you say, hey, what does it mean to be a foster? And kids throw out answers, and if you have young kids, it might be like, we love pizza or whatever. And it's not. It's just that all ideas are good ideas situation. And then you maybe write them down. You put them on the fridge. It's not it's not Pinterest worthy unless that gives you life. But there's no pressure to make it Pinterest worthy. And then you come back around to it a couple weeks later and you say, hey, like at dinner, you lead with vulnerability. You say, hey, you want to know what I noticed the other day that I had this? One of our family values is creativity, so you should first call it out in your kid. Well, I saw you being kind. I saw you being this. I saw you enjoying pizza, whatever it is. But then you can vulnerably say, hey, I noticed the other day that I really wanted I had this creative idea, and you want to know why I didn't do it? Because I got distracted by my phone and I actually really wanted to do that. Huh? Does that ever happen to you? Now, this is more like if you have kids who are teenagers, right? And then your kids will actually probably say, yeah, actually I've seen that too. And then you can start to have a conversation of like, I wonder what we should do. Maybe we can come up with certain hours or whatever. You can implement things that way. Another approach would be to apply it around the time of a transition. So maybe go on a vacation that's screen free, and then when you come back say, hey, we're going to start to have some different policies. Or when summer starts, we hear a lot of people who say, hey, the first week of summer, they make it screen free. This again depends on the age of your kids, and we're not. I'm sure we'll talk later about it's not just about screen time, but it's also about how you use it. Um, and then the other thing I would say is just know that it's going to take a minute. Our kids, like in anything, are going to test whether this is for real. And so know that the first few days, maybe first three to five days, three especially are going to be hard, but then it's probably going to get a lot better. Um, and you'll get used to it. So that little bit of pain is going to be worth it for the longer term. Although you said having these kids conversations with older kids, I got called out by my seven year old not too long ago, and I am so glad that he had the confidence to do so. And to he looked at me and he goes, mom, you are not listening to me. You are working on your phone and I really want you to listen to me right now. And I was like, are one, you're not wrong. Two I could have said that in a kinder way. Three thank you for having the confidence to shed light on something that I can work on. Yeah. So, um, screen time, of course, is a phrase we all think about a lot, but not all screen time is equal, right? The time that you and your sister spent watching friends. That's that's not that. That was quality. Now, here's the way that we think about it. Basically, all screen time can be divided into three categories creating. That's where like you're making a stop motion video or you're learning a dance move. I want to learn like air walk thing that the kids are doing. And guess what? Videos online are going to be what teaches me how to do it. So you have creating. You have connecting. That's where if you're FaceTiming someone or you're actually synchronously like texting, it's not just connecting through social media. And then you have consuming which is the scroll, which is the a lot of just I'm getting into I mean, you can feel it, right? It's like when you almost like, start to feel like you're in a coma, uh, or turning into a zombie. I guess I should say. Here's the thing. All of these have a place. We think about it like the old school food pyramid, which I know is now like a plate. But at the top of the food pyramid was sweets. They weren't saying you could never have them, but if you eat too much of them, you don't feel good. And that's what it's like with consuming is at a certain point, you start to feel the same way you feel if you're like eating a bunch of junk food and you just don't feel good. And so we oftentimes try to help our kids understand, like, hey, we are. We're actually almost like a yes day family in certain situations around creating. I have a kid who's passionate about 3D printing. I almost if I hadn't been as busy being a working mom, I would have made an awesome like social media post about here. I am a mom of a digital health organization, and I am sending my kid to a camp where he's literally on a computer from nine am to four pm every day this week. How many hours is that? But he was using it to create and it just it it basically the way that our brains engage with those different tasks is different. And so yeah, we think about what they're doing on screens, not just the amount of time. I love that because instantly in my mind I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm doing okay. Dare I even say I'm doing enough as a mom in maybe wondering if this is okay? Cydney loves to do, like color fingernails on this app within her. It's, um. What is it, Amazon Fire tablet. She loves doing that. Hudson loves the skateboard. He loves to design skateboards. They love to do because Covid, man, they love to do that yoga on the TV, right? I mean, all of those things I kind of always lumped under what I now know to be the consumption bucket, when really there was creation involved and connection involved. So thank you for explaining that and giving me a level of, oh, I don't suck in this all of the time, and yet that's what you do. So for so many, so many parents. So thank you for explaining that. Now if by chance I've had a you know what, we're going to use it yesterday as the example. This is what we're going to do. As you can tell I sound a little scratchy. My throat's not my normal A-game self. And so when I got home I told my kids, hey and Jeremy, let's be honest, I said, hey, I'm not feeling super great. I am sorry if my patience is slim. I'm going to go fix some tea. I'm going to take a shower with one of those Vicks tablet things, and then I'm gonna come out and we're gonna have a good night, right? And instantly Hudson was like, does that mean that we get to cuddle on the couch and watch TV? And at first I'm like, okay, he said, cuddle on the couch first, so that's a win. Second, have I conditioned them so much that when someone is sick, they know that they can relax and rest? And then I'm like, but then why am I judging myself for even wondering that? And so in that moment, as we lead into the next question, what would you suggest for the working parent who needs time to him or herself but doesn't know how much screen time is okay? Yeah. So I think first of all, uh, we can talk more about how much screen time is okay. But I do also want to address this, that this fact that I think we as parents in this generation feel this pressure to be a cruise director, an activities director. And that is at the root, I think, of why some of this comes up, because we feel like we need to tell them, like if a kid comes up to us and says, I'm bored, it is like they are saying it like an insult. And we tend to feel like I'm failing as a mom if my kid is bored. And so I want to just start by saying we don't have to solve it all for our kids. And so if it's like, hey, I'm going to be out, not, I mean, depending on the age of your kids, not necessarily out of the house, but like, hey, you have an hour. You know, maybe here are a couple of things that I do need you to do. Like, could you read this or could you do chores? Chores are one of the best things to have our kids do, actually for their own mental health. There was an article during Covid, I think it was in the Wall Street Journal about why unloading the dishwasher is great for your kids mental health. It like makes them doing things, which I'm like, okay, my kids are not going to whistle while they work, but if we're going to have a clash, at least I get something productive. And over time, more so. But so again, we talked about boredom. So just first of all, releasing yourself to say, hey, it's okay if my kid is bored and it's not my problem to deal with that. It'll take about twenty minutes to work through the frustration of being bored for kids who aren't used to being bored. So know that that first time or two they'll like. Like Brené Brown described it. As for teenagers who really have, most of them never experienced being bored because they've been part of the social experiment with screens that they, like, think they're going to die because they I mean, it's like, they like, what am I supposed to do? I'm alone in my thoughts. But if you allow them to work through that, they will go shoot hoops and play basketball or whatever. So we'll work through it and come to something more, uh, better on the other side. But I think some of the other things we said of, hey, give them screen time, especially around, um, quality screen time or give them audiobooks. I will say, I do think the more that you can press into the comfort with them, choosing their own way and working through boredom is really helpful, because a lot of times, research shows that if kids get almost like Pavlovian dogs, that they think that they need screens as the only way to satisfy a gap on their schedule, then that's just what they're used to, and they don't actually know how to create a better option for themselves. One thing that has really been nice for our family is, although we don't get nap time anymore, we still do rest time. And so rather than they take naps, they go into their room for an hour, mainly because they, especially on the weekends, play together all of the time. And so during this rest time, they do not get technology. Now that's not right. They don't get screens. They have their Tony, they love their Tony music box. And so they'll both be playing that they'll read. And so honestly, as you're talking out loud, it's almost like a designated time for them to be alone and be okay in that. Love that. And then when you've built that, they know that they normally only have it a certain amount of time. But you could I mean, it's fine to cuddle on the couch and watch TV if you're not feeling well. So no judgment on that. But you could also have this thing that your family then knows what rest time is. Hey, mom's not feeling well. I know we don't normally have rest time on a whatever day at six p m, but we're going to go into rest time mode and they actually have the skills they've been conditioned to be able to do it. Yeah, that's that's super wise. Okay. Next time let's hope that doesn't happen for a while. But next time I will say yes, I love it. I'll tell you. I remember when I was home sick as a kid and I watched The Price Is Right with my mom. It was like, I loved that about being homesick. And so it's okay, it's okay, or a snow day. It's okay. Oh, we don't have snow days anymore. Those are e-learning days. Oh, yeah. Okay. Nonetheless. Doesn't matter. Tracy, what is the mental impact that screen time has on our kids? What's interesting about screen time is that it's kind of a platform for almost all of our worst tendencies, so it's hard to bucket it in general, right? Like kids can use that to accidentally or intentionally access hardcore pornography, which has extremely serious problems for a brain. They can use it to accidentally again fall into courses of getting radicalized. There are all sorts of different things, but the biggest thing that got me into this was just looking at the loneliness epidemic. So there was research a few years ago that, well, it's been done for decades, but that looks at the level of loneliness by age band. And for the first time ever, our youth were the loneliest age band of all. They felt lonelier even than the elderly who were homebound. And you're like, oh my goodness, that's a problem. And we heard from so many youth that said things like, well, yeah, I have so many friends, right? Because they have thousands of these friends or followers or whatever, but they don't have anyone who they feel like they can actually talk to. Or we heard stories of like, well, I know exactly what to post on Twitter if someone's grandmother dies, but I don't know that I should go over to their house and sit with them and that that loneliness and isolation, I think we I'm not going to go really dark here, but I think we see the effects of that in a lot of different situations from the most severe, um, but also even in smaller places. What's the first thing that we can do to start making loneliness? Not as much of an issue with our kids. Well, I think it can be even just small things of making sure that they're connected. Are they on a sports team? Are they in a dance club? It doesn't have to be overly organized behavior. Um, right. I know we can have overly scheduled kids. Do they have one friend that they actually get together with on a regular basis? Do they make phone calls to their friends? We love this product. It's called Tin Can. It's these little they're super cute. They're back ordered until December, but they're these phones, uh, they're their Wi-Fi phones that you can call. You can call other tin can phones totally for free, but you can get a little subscription. Like have them have them engaging in human conversation. Another thing is letting our kids. So one thing that Jonathan Hite says that you've probably already heard in The Anxious Generation is we're overprotecting our kids in the real world and under protecting them in the digital world. The first chapter, okay, I couldn't remember, like, yeah, so that is a reality. So let our kids go. I mean, however you feel comfortable with, but maybe push yourself a little bit outside of your comfort zone to say, hey, it is okay for them to go in the backyard and climb a tree, and that's actually really good for their mental health. Yes. Could they fall? Yes. Is this within reason? But anyways, just starting to let them at the grocery store, there's crazy data that shows that like I think I don't have it offhand, but it was something recently that said that even like fourteen year olds most of the time are not allowed to go over one aisle over in the grocery store by their parents. And it's because we've gotten a lot of fear mongering we now have access to news in ways that we never did before, both through traditional outlets but also through social media. We'll hear about the one kidnapping, and we'll hear so many details that it feels like we knew the person who had happened to. And data generally shows that a lot of those things aren't happening as much as we think they are, but because they're so horrendous, if they do happen, we start pulling in the reins to the point of even not letting our kid be in charge of getting five items on the grocery store list. And what's happening is we we we do that for the purpose of safety, but it's actually coming at the cost of their health and safety in the longer term. And dare I say, control. For me, that grocery store example is the perfect thing. Tracy. Because granted, the kids are seven and eight and now I can find myself like I'm making excuses already for the fact that I don't let them out of my sight. And when you said that, I was like, oh my gosh, that's totally me. And it's out of that fear mongering because of because of what? We live in a good area. Now, that does not mean that there are not issues that don't go down in this Midwest. Tracy's in, you know, a four hour radius of this location anyway, but yet it happens. I have absolutely no problem letting them run loose at the fairgrounds. And it's because it's, in my mind, like the rule, we're safe. They're probably just as safe at the grocery store as they are out at the fairgrounds. But it's me. It is me. And yet it's scary. Tracy. Scary for me too. I mean, the first time I did it, I literally was in a Trader Joe's and I like, had a Trader Joe's employee that I said, can you please follow my child? He's in charge of getting three items. Please don't intervene. But I just wanted like this is hard for me. I am the natural helicopter mom I love I love controlling, so it is really hard for us to, uh. But I think it can be really worth it. And, you know, I scoped out like, okay, which store only has one entrance and exit? You know, you don't want to do this. I'm not trying to encourage anyone to do something, you know, a super Walmart or whatever. We're all of a sudden there are a whole lot of aisles and they could really get lost. But starting with small things will build their confidence and it will build yours because you'll be like, wait, actually, my kid knows what they're doing, you know? And it's really cool. The first couple times that I did this in a different sense, I definitely looked in the mirror and was like, I actually think I'm the one holding them back from time to time. And yeah, that's not yeah, that's not putting guilt on myself. It's just a realization. Now that I'm aware, the next time that I would have said no, out of control. And this isn't even about technology. That's the beautiful thing about this is that yes, we're talking with Tracy and Screen sanity, but yet, isn't it so cool how a lot of these topics dovetail nicely into life, which is the beauty behind that. And I realized that at that point in time, like I am in my own way, and our kids from time to time, and we want our kids to be captivated by life. But what what else does that look like in practice? You gave the example of climbing a tree. Do you have some others? Yeah. Um, I guess my brain's still in the grocery store. But I will tell you the first time that one of my kids rode their bike to the grocery store because I needed to get something for a recipe, and I was like, hey. And they felt nervous, and I felt even more nervous. And they rode their bike and they got the item and they brought it home. I cannot tell you how proud they felt of themselves. So different things like that that helped them push. I mean, there's so many different ways to be captivated by life. And again, screen time can come into it. You can go out and do dude perfect trick shots. You can make something and give it to a neighbor. You can go visit an elderly neighbor. I mean, really one of my kids? This sounds I don't like this example because it sounds so silly, but he's super into music and so he performs a lot at nursing homes. And I know that's a much higher bar situation, but I'm just mentioning it because I had said that word elderly. When you think about it, there are so many small moments of just human connection, and I think we all feel like that is where you suddenly feel this depth or this fullness. And so the more that we can help our kids feel that is it saying, hey, you're bored, why don't you call grandma and literally just call her? Don't FaceTime her because things go off the rails when you FaceTime, but call her and talk to her or call whoever. So there's so many different, different things. Um, yeah, I love it, I love it. So I selfish question because you gave the example of five years before we give a child a phone is really when we need to start talking about it. So what are your thoughts and suggestions as to how and when to introduce a first phone. vote. No, this is a million dollar question, right? Everyone's always like, when should I give my kid a phone? And I think it varies in a variety of ways. But the biggest thing that I will tell you is that it shouldn't be your first. It shouldn't be your first thing. So we talk a lot about the concept of driver's ed. We learn how to drive a car through getting incrementally more responsibility as we demonstrate competence. And just to put color on this, I remember when I first went out to practice learning how to drive with my dad. We went to a high school parking lot, and all I did on day one was drove like maybe fifteen feet forward and I didn't wreck anything. And I was like, okay, I'm good. He's like, do you want to keep going? And I'm like, nope. Because it was so much pressure and I didn't want to mess something up. Some of all of our kids, they're eager to get a phone, but they are then entering into this world of group text. And how do I comment on everything that like there's so much pressure that also comes with it that it's actually really helpful to say, hey, okay, most people are getting most kids are getting a phone. The average age nationally is about nine. That's really, really young. And the only reasons they tend in most cases there are different things co-parenting all sorts of, you know, glucose monitor. There are a variety of reasons. We're not trying to say there's only one way. But the number one reason is two things. It's I want to be able to get Ahold of them if something comes up related to soccer practice. Soccer is almost always the example, like if there's lightning and soccer is canceled, which guess what, the coach does have a phone. Um, or if I'm running late, you know, and in case there was like a huge, huge, huge serious emergency when Screen Sanity first started, we didn't have a lot of other options. But now there are there are, there are amazing. Um, why Wi-Fi? Uh, walkie talkies. If you just want your kid to be able to walk to a neighbor's house but you feel nervous. So give them that for the soccer situation. You can give them a kids watch. If they start to get older, you can give them these amazing basic first phones that are defaulted to only allow calling text and a few other things. So we encourage more than anything that you that you try to do that there. I'm not going to take an official stance, but the anxious generation, for instance, says try to wait till age fourteen, if you can, to give your kid a full smartphone. And I will tell you that research shows every single year that you wait in giving them a phone. It has long term positive impacts on their mental health. Like you can see a difference at a kid age twenty two, if they got a phone at age thirteen rather than at age nine. I mean, and here's the thing, that research just came out probably four months ago, so there's no judgment to the people who have already done this because we didn't know better or there's no judgment to because we have been rallying so much with some of the big telecoms and say, can you start providing some of those first phones in your store because parents don't know that they exist, right? We're so busy. So we know about the iPhone or the the main Android phones because that's what we get from, you know, T-Mobile or whoever it might be. But we don't know as much about these other products. And I think when we start to have more people get those other products, it again, goes back to what I said in the beginning, when you can get on the same page and all of the kids get a Bach phone or a Gabb phone or a pinwheel or whatever it is, then they're excited about what they have and not really lamenting what they don't have. We will link some of what Tracy's talking about, whether it's the tin can phone, the watches, the Bach kid phone. We'll link some of that in our show notes so you can check those out. This conversation is so good, I love this. How do we monitor while also giving them privacy and a respectful, kind way, but also realizing like you don't get a ton of privacy with a phone or a screen for quite a while. Yeah. So we think about this to continue the car analogy. Similar to seatbelts, right? Everyone wears a seatbelt. It's not because we're saying that we don't trust our job, that we're not a safe driver, that we're not a good person. But accidents happen both because we might have a little blip of judgment or miss something, but also because of the others around us. And so we feel like putting on different types of monitoring and filtering internet safety aspects is very much like wearing a seatbelt. We suggest three layers. The first layer is on your home internet router. There are products like a griffin that make it so that if your kid accidentally types in Whitehouse.com instead of whitehouse.gov, they're not accidentally taken to a porn site or other things like that. Because a lot of times kids stumble onto tough content by accident. So that can be so powerful. Those devices, those routers do allow you to make settings per individual device, so you can have different settings. But I will tell you, one of the best ways to do it is in the car. Do we all wear our seatbelt? We do. And so with these, with these products, you I mean, this is a bold choice, but it's really powerful. If you're like, guess what? I am wearing the same seatbelt as you. I don't want to be seeing stuff like that. And so we've heard amazing stories because after I'll share it after this. But so you start with that home router. Then as you have devices that are starting to move, there are different monitoring services you can put on. Our favorite one is one called bark. It pays attention. It's I mean you could say it's surveillance, but again, I'm happy to put it on my own phone to it's tracking against if there's anything that they're accessing that seems like they're likely to commit violence or they're being bullied. So again, protecting them just like a seatbelt or indecent content if they're getting or receiving sex. I mean, it's amazing how helpful it is and it can kind of do a lot of that work. Is it still probably helpful as a parent to spot check things so that you can see how your kid's communicating? Yes, but it helps to do a lot of that. That puts you at a little bit more arm's length. And I think it's really powerful. I want to share that there was a story we heard just maybe a year or so ago, from a parent who had gone through our program years ago and his son was going to college. And so with all of these things, you know, we recommend giving increasing responsibility. So, hey, if your kid's going to go to college and they're not going to have a router or filter, then maybe junior, senior year of high school, you start wheeling some of those things back. And his son actually said, dad, I don't want you to take those away. Like when I go to college, I still want bark on my phone because I know that I don't want to be doing that stuff. And so I think that's a really powerful encouragement. I mean, the way that you communicate about these matters, it really matters. And we have different resources about, you know, hey, share that. It's like a seat belt. If possible, share that you're doing it too, because that's where the trust can really come into play. But to know that kids actually can feel that sense of relief of are there are some guardrails, right? We all need structure and guardrails. Wow. Some of these things I didn't even realize that we could do. Which makes me feel as a parent who hasn't gotten necessarily to this. And even if you are like, I don't have to do it by myself, it goes back to the very beginning of what you said is that we are all in this together. And that's why people like Tracy and her team provide these resources to be able to, to really help guide the conversation. Now, how how do we protect our kids self-esteem, their confidence, their dignity in a digital world in ways that aren't like a home router or bark? Yeah, well, I think a lot of their self-esteem is pretty tied to social media platforms. So I'll share some general social media thoughts, because now I guess I could counteract that and say, let me tell you, group text threads definitely can do a lot around kids self-esteem. There's a lot. Group text threads almost always devolve into real challenging situations. But why don't I, for the sake of this, just focus on social media? I will mention one resource that we have. It's called our social media Playbook. You can download it on our website, but it's what we encourage parents to get before a kid enters social media, if possible, or if they're already in. And it can be for reset. But it helps you start to talk through things like who do I want to follow when I'm following people? For what purpose is it? Is it because, like, I love dogs? Is it because I this or that? And how can I start to notice if someone I'm following is actually making me not feel good about myself? And then what do I do with that? Um, because I think even having that conversation, you know, we aren't used to no one had a conversation with us about social media before we entered. But I think talking very specifically about social media sharing, hey, you're going to see some crazy things on there going, having sitting next to your kid. We actually recommend with social media, it's kind of going back to the the ride practice drive concept, but start where they have a TikTok or Instagram or whatever account and it's actually on your phone. And when you start, there's this I love this metaphor. It's like I do, you watch, I do you help, you do I help you? Do I watch? Right. It's about giving that control over time. So maybe first it's that they actually scroll with you on your Instagram account, which. Let's talk about vulnerability there. Right. Or you set up one for them, or you set up one for the family pet and you guys are collectively coming up with like, okay, let's see who would who would our dog want to follow? Well, that dog just posted a picture on a, uh, on a gondola in Venice. How do I feel about that? I feel really jealous. What the heck? Who? Who is that in the world? I mean, I'm coming up with a ridiculous situation, but the more that you can find ways so that you can start even by talking through things goes a long way. And then if your kids are on the platforms consistently, share your experiences as often as possible. Similarly to the one when we were talking about after the values, but say, gosh, guys, I was on the internet today, whatever, whatever platform, and a video popped up that told me that in order to be beautiful, I need to like, shave down my teeth. That that's interesting. Like, have you guys ever heard that? Huh? Do you like. I don't think I need. What do you guys think? You know, they'll be like, no, mom, you're beautiful, you know? But they might say, I've seen that or I've seen other things like that. And so I think just getting into that conversation is a huge first step. I want to say one quick thing. Eighty four percent of teenagers report that they have never had a helpful or positive, a helpful or useful conversation with any trusted adult in their life. How? What? That is one of the key metrics that we hope to change. Because if we even just that even. Hey, mom, I saw this thing about, you know, I need to eat less than five hundred calories. What? Like, did you ever do that? Like, what do you. You know, if they ever talk to you about that, you have an opportunity to help them. They need help and they want help. And so it's just about us finding ways to lead with vulnerability and empathy. You mentioned earlier something like, gosh, what would we have done if we had this type of information. And so a lot of times people say it's so much harder to be a parent now than ever. And that may be true. But if that's true, it's really because it's so much harder to be a kid now than ever. And so we're trying to help our kids navigate things that I just can feel sick to my stomach, imagining what would have happened if I had all the same pressures that they have. I remember when we got introduced in school and it was Oregon Trail and we were playing Oregon Trail, I think all of us remember that. And the wagon got ditched over, and that was the first time I had actually seen gruesome blood in that sense, because my mom and dad had done such a good job of protecting me from that type of visual. But I'll be honest, Tracy, even though we had a home computer that had dial up internet and it was a family computer, there were definitely opportunities for me at twelve thirteen to have chats with me on games I'll never forget the first time a chat popped up. And again, this is how you test if your mom's actually listening to your podcast episodes. There was a chat that popped up and I remember. I don't remember what it said, but it had some words that I didn't know what they meant. I should have gone to my mom. I didn't because I felt like, oh, this is different. This is new. My reaction to that was not now. I still very quickly exited out, but I think I exited it out purely out of the fear of what if they see that? Rather than what does this mean? How do we have those conversations with our kids at any age to get them to realize that really, ultimately we're their partner in this? I think that is so important. Um, I think it's so important for us, first of all, to practice our poker face so that if and when a kid ever does come to us about it and tells us something that's shocking. The biggest thing that holds them back from that is they're afraid we're going to freak out. Either that that will then make them feel shame or that then we'll say your phone's gone, the computer's gone, whatever. And so I've actually we've actually encouraged people to literally practice to the person sitting next to you, like say something shocking and like, the other person has to be like, wow, I bet that was surprising. What did you think? So that's one thing. But I also think preventative conversations, telling them when they have access to technology. Hey, here are some of the things you might see and I just want to let you know I am always here for you. I will never judge you for what you're doing, and I will try to help you. Even if you did something that was in the wrong we all like. If I had had this technology at this age, let me tell you about when I was playing the game on my parents computer and this box popped up and it made me feel I didn't know what to feel. And I just want you to know you can always come to me. I will not overreact. And I'm here to help you. That's beautiful. So good. We love to wrap up every episode with lightning round questions. But, Tracy, honestly, before we get to that, is there any topic or specific thought you want to share before we kind of get into the fun clothes? Uh, I don't think so. There's so they're like a gazillion other directions you can take here. But I guess the biggest thing I will say is try to find your village. So our parent night kit, that's my favorite thing just because we created it as moms in the trenches who were like, how do we get people to talk about this without feeling like we have to be like, if you start this conversation, you can feel like you have to be the expert or like you're being the judgy know it all. And it's like, no, you just need someone to pop in there like, hey, I'm struggling with how to navigate this. Have you guys ever thought about it? You know, here's the thing that we or we have like a book club version. Here's a way, would you guys want to come together and talk about this? So just helping to get that conversation because you were saying earlier, Denise, just how powerful it is. And then you have someone who can help troubleshoot things with you. Hey, what are you doing about this? So find your village and use resources. If AHS can be helpful, we're happy about that. But find resources so that you don't feel like you have to be the expert. You're just the mom, alongside other moms or dads trying to figure it out. We will link Traci's website links to her products directly because I don't know about you, but by the end of this now I'm like, okay, what's my next step to work with you? And so you've provided these opportunities for us to be able to do that. You can follow her on her social links, visit their website. All sorts of good things in the notes. We'll also post them on our social pages as well. But holy cow, a wealth of knowledge and thank you for doing that, Tracy. Now, before we leave, quick answers off the top of your head. I know you can do this, Tracy. Okay. One how can we as parents model healthy screen time habits? The best way possible from your perspective? Um, I'll just say one little tip. Narrate. Tell your kids what you're doing. A lot of times they assume that you're just playing Candy crush or not really. They really. They don't know games. They think of them as entertainment and you're actually placing a target order. So tell them, hey, I have some work emails. I'm going to go work on work emails for thirty minutes. It helps them learn what you're using technology for that's productive. I love it as adults. And maybe for you personally, what are your top three favorite apps? And then I have a secondary question. Oh, my favorite apps. Um, I do love Instagram. Uh, I've worked really hard to hone my feed so that it's a feed that's encouraging to me, and it is like I don't actually follow almost anyone I know. It's literally just a feed for creativity and ideas. Um, other apps that I love, uh, I love counting my steps. I'm thinking, what would my screen time say when I go to all the time? And I do really love. I have a love hate relationship with an app called Voxer. It's one where you can like leave voicemails back and forth, and we use it on our team a lot. It's amazing because it allows you to be able to have that non-verbal part of, you know, the intonation rather than just doing emails. You can listen to it while you're driving, but I can I sometimes can can use voxer too much. I love it. Those are great. That's so fun. What is your favorite off screen activities that your kids love? Um. Attending Kansas City Royals baseball games is one of our favorites. And oh no, this is on screen. I was going to say 3D printing, but that actually does use a screen. That was a good answer. You're totally fine. Okay. And then what is your favorite way to recharge without a screen? Well, as a mom, I don't shower as much as I would like to. In earlier we talked about showering. I mean, honestly, that's like a I'm like, I should try to do this every day just for the like complete ness of it, but going on a walk or things like that to or shower, that's lovely. I would go with the shower. Oh, Tracy, what a good conversation. Thank you for pouring into so many. Not only those listening, but this is your job and you educate so very well and on such a relational level, screen sanity is their handle on all platforms. Check them out, we'll link it as well. And we thank you, Tracy, for the love and the gifts that you have given us today. Thank you Denise. We are all just trying to do the best we can. Screen sanity Tracy Foster you know where to go for more information. And remember, you can do hard things. Thank you for listening to the Working Moms Redefined podcast. It is not lost on me that you chose to spend time together. Thank you. Let's connect outside of the space on socials. We'd love for you to follow us on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, Pinterest. We've got it all to connect with you. If you feel as if someone in your life could be impacted by this message, feel free to share it. That is the biggest compliment as we part ways together. Remember, you can do hard things.
