Untitled - August 27, 2025
00:00:00 Speaker: Hi, I'm Denise. Host of the Working Moms Redefined podcast. Let's join together as we lessen the hold of mom guilt in our lives, thrive in our careers, and raise great kids. You are doing enough. Let us boost your confidence today on this episode of Working Moms Redefined podcast. How to Raise Good Kids is a topic that so many of us consider as working parents not only raise good kids, but raise kids that are citizens that contribute back to our communities. And you think from time to time, wow, that sounds like a big challenge. I don't even know where to start. That is where Lindsey Cormack is here to share her story, her insight, and all of her wisdom because she is a PhD, a political science professor, a community board member and a mother who blends all of these things together to raise good kids. She has academic expertise and real world experience to help parents, educators and communities lead better and honestly have constructive conversations about politics and civic engagement. Because how dare you bring up politics around the dinner table? That's not something that we want our kids to feel. And so Lindsay has done a great job and put it all in a book for you. It's called How to Raise a Citizen, where she equips parents and educators with clear structure. And I don't know about you, but I love some systems and some foundational civic knowledge to really empower young people to make informed, engaged decisions and raise those types of citizens. So, Lindsay, we are so excited to have you today and learn more. Welcome, Denise. Thank you for inviting me. I'm excited to talk with you. We are excited to learn about a topic that probably is not discussed, at least in our world, worlds as much as I would prefer. So for all of our listeners, what are you hoping that by the end of this episode, they take away either from learning from you or that they take away to apply? Oh, first of all, I love that question. I had a similar question posed to me at the end of a talk I gave recently, and I think the biggest thing is that you need to have a vision of what you want our political future to be, and then find a way for you to be in it. And so I just want people to take it on. And I never have like a prescriptive like, make sure you figure out who your member of Congress is or make sure you write a letter or whatever. Everyone has so many different points of interest, and there's always a pathway. And so the ask that I have is to find your pathway and see this as a part of what you're doing, both as a parent and as an individual, because this is the country we're going to live in for the rest of our lives. So we might as well make it as good as we can. So many questions already come to mind based off that, so I'm excited to dive in to really find not only probably a lot of our own pathways, but then help our children find theirs as well. Before we get to all of that, tell us a little bit about you, something that you want to share about who you are, why you are the way you are. What do you do and where does your passion come from for this type of work? So I'm not sure about all the ways that I got to who I am, but I do know that I think part of the big thing was I grew up in Kansas and I now find myself in New York City. I did about eighteen years in Kansas, and now I'm coming up on my eighteenth year in New York City. And I think seeing how different parts of our country can operate with like, joy in different ways, sadness in different ways, political successes and political failures in different ways has made me appreciate that. There's not like one right answer to all of the problems that plague us, or all of the possibilities that we have. And instead, it really takes like people who care about things to figure out what those solutions are going to be or what the sort of hurdles we're going to have to get over. And so I think part of the reason that I care so much about politics is because I've been able to see life in a very different way, and I know that that's a rare thing. I know that some people, you know, they'll bounce from town to town if they're growing up with families who move a lot and sometimes they'll stay put. Seeing the country from the center and from the coasts has been something that I've really enjoyed, and I think it's given me a perspective understatement. Right. And Lindsay, you are currently a professor where I'm a professor at Stevens Institute of Technology in Hoboken, new Jersey, and I have been there for eleven years now. This is a school that primarily serves students in the Stem disciplines. I think something like eighty percent of our graduates get engineering degrees of some sort, whether that's civil or electrical or computer. And that population is really one of the reasons why I took this book on, because I have enjoyed working with them, and they are so bright and so smart. But oftentimes they don't know very basic things about government or like their own levers of power or how they get into it. And so I'm not sure that I would have written this book had I not had the opportunity to work with them for as long as I have to realize that we can be so well versed in many things, and yet something that is oftentimes a day to day apparent presence in our life, like civic civic readiness. And we might not know a ton about it. For those in, myself included, how do you define civic readiness? It's a great question. I will tell you. I think the word civics is a little bit hard for people to wrap their heads around, because I think it's not only things like voting or contacting elected officials. Sometimes civics is things like volunteering or looking out for others in your neighborhood. And so I try to think about readiness as like political readiness, government readiness and know how. And in order to sort of encapsulate all these things, it's not only understanding the structures, but it's understanding your place in those structures. So we're all just little pieces in a much bigger machine. But if we don't consider ourselves that way or we don't really understand, like how all the pieces fit together, then we're not as ready as we could be. And so there's never like, you know, fully. I'm fully civic ready. There's always something more to learn. But I think it's something that we see as a process, as something that you can always build on throughout an entire lifetime. I think back to middle school, when we had to memorize certain aspects and be able to complete the Constitution on a test, or we went and toured our state capitol and some of us went to DC. And so those things are all experiences to help showcase what our civic duty might be. And yet, you're a mom. How on earth do I start teaching this type of thing to, like, say, my eight and six year, six year olds? And how did you do it with your kids? Yeah. So, uh, the experiences that you just had, if I could, like, wave a magic wand, I would make it show that every child gets to go to their state capitol, and every child gets to see the awe that is DC, because you can sort of understand our history and how great it is to be here, and how it could be better in terms of how we can do this with our young children six to eight years old. I think the first thing to recognize is that they are already getting messages about government and politics, even if we're not the ones who are giving it. And I'll give you an example from like children's literature or children's media. If you have kids who watch things like Dinosaur Train or Paw Patrol or Simpsons of yesteryear, usually in children's cartoons, there'll be some character like a mayor that's like typically the government official that you see in those sorts of representations. And at best, those mayors are sort of like bumbling doofuses who sort of like get to the best outcome, but kind of by accident. Usually the protagonist helped him along. And at worst, they're out to do harm to the city that they are meant to protect. And so they are getting these messages. And what I think our responsibility and role as parents is, is to make sure that they're also seeing the upsides of government, because oftentimes they are awash in narratives, both from children's literature and media, but also from popular media, that they might hear this background noise, that government is bad, it's overbearing, it's too much. And so as a parent, we can do a few things. One thing that they have to see us do is care about things. They learn from what we do and what we don't do. And if they never see us care about something happening in our neighborhood or something happening in our state, they're going to get the message that they shouldn't do it either, or there's no value in doing it. Second, they need to see us have discussions, whether that be with them a spouse, a friend, a neighbor, so they can understand what it is to have a civil dialogue with someone, maybe to disagree or maybe to agree, but have different routes to getting to that end point. But they have to see us sort of like work through what that looks like so they can have a model as they're getting older. Then there's some easier things. If you go to vote, bring your kids to vote with you. Let them see those spaces. Because oftentimes for eighteen year olds, when they first get to do it, it's intimidating. They don't know the procedure. They don't know what sort of documentation they might have to bring. They don't know how to check in. And so giving them the practice of doing this sort of stuff, even when they're little, creates an impression that this is part of what we do versus this is something else that other people do. It's something that we do. And I think the last thing that we can do with our young kids is when there is something good that happens, like, for instance, in the town where I spend my summers, the town over just got a splash pad and they've been working on it for like four years. That is a triumph of the civic organizations in that area, because we've had like three heat waves in the Hudson Valley this summer. And now kids have a cool place to go, which was a taxpayer funded agreement of government entities and nonprofits to put together. And that's something good that government has done. So if you can point those things out to kids, they can kind of see like, oh, this isn't just people who are complaining about taxes or people who are doing things I don't like. There's positives in government. We just have to point them out. This past year, as I'm assuming a lot of people's tax bills increase, when I wrote that check out, it hurt a little bit more. And yet then I look at the percentage as to where that those tax dollars are going. And in our area a few years ago, we built a new school, and probably seventy six percent of our tax money is going for this new school. I was part of the committee that got that approved, if you will. Not everyone loved that, but I was part of it. So when I wrote that check out this time, I was like, oh, the kids go to this school now I'm going to talk about this with them. And so I explained, like, hey, this dollar amount is a way for us to be able to give you these new buildings and this new gym that you play with. And they said, wait, so who all pays for this? And it's having those types of conversations. Who's to say it's stuck? But also selfishly, it kind of made it not hurt as bad for me because once I explained it, not only did it help them understand, it helped me understand. Okay, like I am contributing to our society in this way. And what better way to give money to those that need it than for a school? Yeah, that sounds like a great thing to do with your kids, as you said. Like there's this government practice that was deciding how we're going to allocate funds. We might need more money for it, our taxes might be higher, and yet we're going to have this outcome or benefit that we all sort of can enjoy. And, you know, even if you're not sending a child to a school, their communities are healthier. When they have better schools, there's fewer crime. There's a idea that there's more of a purpose for those towns. Those kids are going to have better outcomes. And so it's a good thing for communities to have good schools. And I'm glad you got to do that with your kids. Thank you. And that transitions nicely into I'm not so sure politics are well, based on your comment of integrating Paw patrol now I'm like, Holy cow, that is totally how that mayor was depicted. I was going to say, I'm not so sure how much politics are necessarily discussed at school in elementary age, but there might be underlying there probably are underlying messages within our school districts. When we look at the role that schools play in shaping good citizens, what does that look like? One. And then honestly, how can us parents partner with them in that? So the challenge of saying what it looks like throughout the United States is that school is state decided. So instead of having like one system that you can say, here's how it happens. We have fifty systems. And in reality, in every state, much of the decision making is further devolved down to. Like school boards or counties or whatever sort of parishes, whatever sort of this setup is. So I can't tell you what happens in every school, but I can tell you sort of the modal form of instruction around government, politics, civics, usually in seventh or eighth grade. So middle school in most places will have our first sort of social studies curriculum. That might be a semester, it might be a year. And oftentimes that'll be like, um, explorers reaching the new world settling. We'll have some pioneer stuff. You get through early government, some founders things, maybe some westward expansion. That's like a typical curriculum in a seventh or eighth grade understanding of social studies. And then we usually wait until eleventh or twelfth grade and we'll give a semester long course called government. Some kids will opt into AP government, but for most kids, it's just like a standard government course where kids might learn things like separation of powers, Division of responsibilities, how bills become law. Maybe some things about voting. But unlike every other subject where we scaffold and layer from K through twelve for social studies government politics, it's usually like dip in in seventh or eighth and then dip in again at eleventh or twelfth, which means that we're not really preparing our students for the world that they're going to enter into, because we're not giving them enough time with this material, and we're expecting them to retain things in their last year of high school, which is not like when children or anyone really, who's like going on to a next new chapter, is ready to download a bunch of information. Parents can make this better because the reasons that we have this sort of like limited curricular time around civics, politics, government, our political decisions, some of it is because people will tell you in the teaching profession is if it's not tested, it's not taught. And when we look at the Act and the SAT, neither one of them has a social studies component. The act did until Or seven. Excuse me, nineteen eighty seven. Uh. And since then, neither one of them have had any social studies, like tests that you have to have a part of those bigger assessments. In recent years, the S.A.T. has started putting in some founding documents for their, like, reading comprehension. So fluency in that would be helpful. But it's something where we would have to argue that our kids need more of this time. They need more content, and the world is awash in content. There's plenty of nonprofit groups and good government groups who will give curricular standards to teachers, but it's really hard to make those choices with the constraints that most schools face right now, which is time, resources, teachers, and they simply don't have enough to make this real unless we as parents want to prioritize it and push for those sorts of things. And if that's not in someone's agenda, if you will, you can do it at home. And that's another undertaking. But man, isn't it just so worth it. So that's the rationale for this book. It's called How to Raise a Citizen. And then the parentheses is something that my daughter actually added in that little subtitle, which is and why it's up to you to do it. Because when we were writing this book, it was myself and six research assistants from Stevens, and we thought we were going to write a book on, like which states were doing the best at preparing their students to enter eighteen year old eligible to vote. Life ready to hit the ground. And what we found is that most states are really doing it that well. Some states are doing it better than others. But if you really want to get this done based on the constraints that we have in schools right now, it's going to be in your home. And that's something that you have the most time with them. You're the best teachers. They look up to you the most, and they get to sponge off of everything you do and don't do. So it really is kind of a challenge, but it's also a gift that we get to do as parents without giving too much out of your book away because you guys were going to give you details, you can visit our show notes. You can purchase this book if you're on our YouTube channel. You can see how beautiful it is right behind Lindsay there. But Lindsay, what are some two or three tips that parents could really focus on implementing Tomorrow to raise good citizens in their home. Well, the first thing, like I always say, is like, take it on. This is something that you have to see as your responsibility. Thinking that someone else is going to do it, whether that be school or friends or something or the internet, someone else will fill that void. But it's not going to be probably the outcome that you want. The second thing that I encourage parents to do is to really check their negativity or the knee jerk reaction to things, because there is sort of this notion around political discussion that like if you disagree with someone, that's because they're either stupid or they're evil, and that sort of, uh, a way of orienting your children to politics is not truthful. And it's not helpful because then they don't see themselves as being agents in a system. It's like, oh, there's the nefarious actors who I'm working against these evil or dumb people. What can I do? And so after you take it on, agree to take it on in a way that's not incredibly negative. And the third thing is consider it an ongoing conversation. This is not something where, like, I sit down and lecture my daughter about politics or quiz her on the Constitution. But I do see it as a responsibility to, at different points in her life, check in on these things when it's relevant to what she's doing, or when it's relevant to the sorts of life stage that she's at. So I imagine when we get to sixteen and we start talking about driving, we'll think about who's making the laws on licensing, who's making laws in different states, about when you get your permit or when you don't. She has family members in Kansas who are going to get to drive earlier than she's going to get to New York City. These are choices. And just letting her know that we are people. We make this system. It's not made and then unchangeable. That's an important checkpoint. You just have to find those entries to do it with them. I love that thought process. It's not unchangeable. You just have to be the one to take it on and do it yourself. Can kids get overwhelmed with all of this? If you kind of don't do like a drip, drip, drop kind of message, because if we think as parents, if we just unloaded everything that we expect them to know, much to your point of waiting until it's too late, we also can't give them everything and expects them to be able to implement it tomorrow. Yeah, and I actually don't think parents are really capable of doing that in the first place. Like, no one wants to sit down, not even myself as a political science professor with a child and say like, okay, we're going to teach you everything about article one of the Constitution. And so it has to be sort of that like drip, drip that you described. And, and the reason that I think it's actually better that way versus like we're sitting down for two weeks and doing all this is it encourages an ongoing engagement with this sort of material or with these sorts of ideas. And then they're going to find the other connections. They're going to see things. This happens with my daughter all the time where she'll come. She came back from camp and she was like, so what's happened with the presidency? Because I haven't seen anything for four weeks. And I was like, wow, so you knew something was going on. There's like a world outside of your camp, you're totally unplugged from it. But you have questions. And I like that because it's not something where it's just like, we're doing this now, never to care about it again. Instead, it's an ongoing conversation. Mhm. That's beautiful. That's so cool. When we think about politics traditionally, I think that there is this stigma, if you will, around politics mean disagreements. And as to your point earlier, it doesn't have to have a negative connotation. However, although your daughter is getting older and you are not by any means right, you have those discussions still around political discussions and or maybe possibly disagreements. It's not necessarily a bad thing. You want your kids to have their own thoughts and reasonings, but how can we or you encourage people to look at that as a way to strengthen relationships rather than strain them? Yeah, this is a great question because oftentimes we think of political conversation is going to be fractious. Someone's going to leave with like hurt feelings. Someone's going to feel misunderstood. And so how I sort of think about this is before you have a conversation, especially as your kids get older and more capable of having these, like, higher order conversations, is you kind of have to set the table first before you get into it. And so part of that is knowing what your child is interested in. Some kids really thrive on debate. They thrive on like proving a point or connecting the dots. Some kids don't want to do that. Some kids might just want to have a discussion. Some kids might want to be more of a receptive listener. And so if you could sort of figure out what your child is, and I guarantee you, you know, you live with them long enough, you can understand that. And then in order to set the table, the first question that I always ask is, what have you heard about that? And the reason that I like, what have you heard versus what do you think? Or what do you believe is that what have you heard means that you do not have to be defensive about saying like, this is the point and I've justified it, and I'm correct. It can be. I heard this on the internet. I heard this at school, I heard this at grandma's house, whatever. And so you can kind of have a landscape of what it is that we're coming to this table with. Before you move on to what do you think about that? How do you feel about that? Is there anything else we need to know about it? And so I really think if you can start it like that, you're having a way less fractious time because it's not prove me I'm wrong or prove to me that you're right. It's like, let's figure out what we all know and then let's move from there. What have you heard about that? What a good question. And it removes the emotion from it, too, right? It doesn't allow ickiness or something that would thrive. Difficult conversations then allows you to then ask the next question. I think you could apply that question to a lot of things outside even of the political realm. I do it in my classroom and I like it in the classroom, because what have you heard also allows my students to sort of embarrassed or, um, like, you know, feel out of their depth to be like, well, I just saw this thing on TikTok, and I don't mean like I watched something for eight seconds and I'm like, that's fine. That's like in your inputs. You know, we all have different inputs. Let us know what it is so that we understand where we're starting from. So I really like what have you heard? You have an interesting perspective of being able to see young adults at a very malleable age. College aged kids are interested in a lot of different things, and that's such an opportunity. What do you notice about those young adults that you see in the college space from those families or parents who maybe taught them some of this civic readiness, compared to maybe those who hadn't been exposed to it before they come to you? Well, it's rare that I have students who tell me, like, my parents talked a lot about this. Sometimes I'll have students who'll be like, my dad was a lawyer, or my mom was on city council, and then those kids will know a lot more. But something that I have noticed is I have worked during the Obama administration, Trump one, Biden and Trump two and say what you will about the like sort of national political setting. The Trump administration, whether it's one or two, has led to students coming in with many more questions. And so there's something about the news cycle kind of really chewing on politics a lot more when it's not like quote unquote boring. And I actually find that that's been a really good teaching environment. I know that in other parts of our politics, some people say, like there's heightened disagreement, but I think in the teaching space and with young people, it's actually been really great in the past few years to teach because they come very confused. They come with questions, they're hearing, things they don't know, and stuff that used to be abstract, like executive orders or pardoning, are actually really present. And you can say like, here's this example from this week. And so in some ways it's been a very fun time to teach. What a cool perspective. Because sometimes people, especially within the media, when they're only shown certain things, it's gloom and doom. And I don't necessarily think we give our young adults enough credit sometimes to be able to think they actually do have an interest in this, and we always know that they're listening, but they're especially listening to this. Obviously, you're teaching poli-sci, so there's an environment for them to open up. But how? How would you say or encourage people to create a space that is, that makes other people, especially young adults or kids, feel comfortable to bring these thoughts to the table? I think you're right on. The doom and gloom is something to avoid. And so if you can come at it with like curiosity and positivity. And I really think like the doom and gloom approach to politics doesn't make sense from a long term standpoint. Like no one wants to live their life riddled with anxiety about what's going to happen next. No one wants to think that the future is going to be worse than the present. And so I think if you can say, like, look, one of the beautiful things about being an American is that we have a system that allows a lot of choice. It allows choice at the federal level, the state level, the local level. And we have these repeated times where we get to do it, which are like two year elections, four year elections, six year elections. And so if you can sort of say, one of the hopeful things about being here is that we get to try people out for a little bit, and if that doesn't work, we get to try again. And that's a great thing versus a narrative that I often hear, which is all politicians are liars, everyone's an egomaniac. The system is rigged. And when I tell you from like looking at state and local politics, most of the people who are working in those arenas are really just tryhards who want the world to look a little bit better. And they're mostly volunteers giving their time and their efforts. You know, if you're on a committee for something like a new school, it's volunteers who are doing this work, and no one's out there to, like, make something worse. They might disagree on what makes something better, but most of the times they're people who are trying hard. And I think that's sort of the vision we need to paint about politics is that we control it. We can change it, and the people who do it are mostly doing it because they think they have something good to offer, not to make everyone else's life harder. That was beautiful. That perspective really allows us to see it's bigger than he said, she said. Or he did it right. She did it wrong. Type of thought process. Last question before we get into lightning round questions, I kind of want you to think about your kids that you work with and maybe the parents or the parents that are listening today. If you could tell them something that you are seen, show up consistently in those young adults to help us say, hey, maybe notice this a little bit more in your kids, or ask this question, or have this discussion a little bit more so that they are ready for when they come to your classroom from that type of perspective. Lindsey. Yeah. That's tricky. What is it that I'm noticing that we might not be noticing? I do think there's something that people who maybe have a little bit of distance between when they were young adults or aren't around young adults all the time, they might think that they're uninterested in politics, like they think it's like boring or nerdy or for someone else. Uh, but when you look at nationally representative survey data and experientially, I'll tell you, it's it's true in my classrooms as well. The kids are often very interested in politics because they sort of see it as like the next step of maturation, like it's the next game that they get to play. And so I think if you can sort of onboard your kids into that or ask them, you know, like, what are you thinking about when you're gonna vote for the first time? Or, like, have you figured out what registration is going to look like in the college town that you're going to? Because oftentimes I have kids, you know, who arrive in August or September. Elections are often in November primaries or sometimes in October. And they haven't figured out like, oh no, I have to register in a new state if I want to participate. And so this sort of like preparation questions that like, let them think about their pathway a year out, a few months out. That might be something I'd encourage parents to do as they're getting ready to send their kids away, whether that be to college or to start a life in a new city so that they're not having to figure it out on their own, because we know that they don't. On average, eighteen to twenty four year olds are the least likely to vote. And so we can probably give them a leg up if we sort of show them the path, or at least help them think about it. Listeners, isn't this so cool? When Lindsay was introduced, when I was introduced to Lindsay, I thought, oh my goodness. Not only is this something that I think all of us could learn, I wanted to learn more about this because we think we might be doing the right thing, and whether or not you're doing the right or wrong thing. It doesn't matter if you're just doing the thing. It's better than nothing. And so, Lindsay, thank you for your time. These these next are a little bit more fun questions. But if you could design a citizen starter kit if you will, for families that are listening, what three items or experiences would you put in this kit? Ooh, that's such a fun question. Um, item one is a pocket constitution. You know, it's only like seventeen to nineteen pages long. It's not that hard to get through. And I think like any other game, if you know the rulebook, you're going to have a better time playing it. So I think that's that's thing number one. Thing number two might be the ability to go figure out at least one of your representatives, whether that is your mayor or city council member, your governor, assembly member, whatever. Go figure that out. And the third thing I think is go take in something that can inspire awe about what government does. That could be like a veterans monument. It could be a new hospital, it could be a school, it could be a senior citizen center, whatever it is. That sort of speaks to the power of when we pool our resources together and figure something out. Mhm. So good, so good. When you hear of kids and citizenship, what do you hope a child associates one word with the word citizenship. Pride. I want them to be proud. I want them to be proud of being here. Yeah. That's good. Okay. Final question. What is the most underrated way for families to make a difference in their community? Uh, I think it's probably not understanding the ways to get involved because it's hard to understand them. Like we don't have in most parts of the country, really good local media. So you don't really know who those decision makers are. So like, for instance, in New York City where I'm at, we have community boards and those are people who are making decisions on like liquor licenses and cannabis licenses. And if you're going to have sidewalk cafes or roadway cafes, and that's quality of life decisions for plenty of people. And so if you can figure out something about sort of the local machinations of where you are, you can be very impactful because not a lot of other people agree to participate in that. And so if you could figure it out, you can be a pretty big voice. I like that idea. You'd be a big fish in a small pond. We wrap this time up. And one final comment, Lindsay, if there was anything that you wanted to share or leave a certain message with our listeners. Besides, of course we want you to go buy her book. Oh, yeah, that's fun too. Um, something that I'll say is sometimes when I talk to people, they will say, you know, they're worried about partisanship. They're worried about, um, you know, if they're going to raise their kids as a Democrat or a Republican. And what I say to parents is you should take that concern off your plate, because there is a difference between raising a citizen and raising a partisan. And raising a citizen is a lot more like raising an athlete. So if you had someone who was trying to get good at soccer, you would teach them the rules of soccer. You would do practice drills with them. You would scrimmage if you were just teaching them to be a partisan. I think it's more like teaching them to be a spectator, which is you would say, here's the team that we cheer for. Here's the face paint that we put on. Here's the songs that we sing and that might be good for sports. If you really like tailgating or like being a spectator. But in politics, we're all athletes. Some of us are just better at being athletes than others, and so you're never really on the sidelines. And instead of thinking you want to raise a partisan that cheers for the right team, think about raising an athlete that can win on no matter what team they decide to be on. The party's changed. The personalities change. Ideology is fluid, and so the idea that you want to get a kid that sees the world the exact same way that you want doesn't make sense, because the reality is they're going to grow up in a world that's different than the one that you were in. And the best social science research shows that it's about a coin toss as to whether or not you can get the outcome you want anyhow, so it shouldn't be the goal. And that's what I really hope people think about after they've agreed to take it on, is you don't have to take it on like my side is, right. You can take it on and like, let's figure out how this system works so that we can all make it better. Beautifully said, beautifully said. Just like myself, I know you're going to want to learn more from Lindsey Cormack. You can purchase her book. It's called How to Raise a Citizen with the subtitle from her daughter. I love that little tidbit. Anything that you can do to integrate youth citizenship now will make an impact down the road in the show notes. Not only do we have the link for you to directly purchase How to Raise a citizen, but also ways to connect with Lindsey, whether it's her Instagram, LinkedIn or her website as well. Lindsey, thank you so much for your time today and helping us really come up with a plan as to how to raise good kids. Thank you for listening to the Working Moms Redefined podcast. It is not lost on me that you chose to spend time together. Thank you. Let's connect outside of this space on socials. We'd love for you to follow us on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, Pinterest. We've got it all to connect with you. If you feel as if someone in your life could be impacted by this message, feel free to share it. That is the biggest compliment as we part ways together. Remember, you can do hard things.
