Untitled - July 3, 2025
00:00:00 Speaker: Hi, I'm Denise. Host of the Working Moms Redefined podcast. Let's join together as we lessen the hold of mom guilt in our lives, thrive in our careers, and raise great kids. You are doing enough. Let us boost your confidence today on this episode of Working Moms Redefined podcast. Working Moms Redefined is a podcast all about removing mom guilt and empowering women and men alike to realize you are doing a good job, whether in your career and or at home. Wouldn't it be nice, though, parents, if we could speak to a child of a very independent working mother to know, hey, you're not screwing us up. I don't know about you, but if Sydney, age eight at the time of this episode could tell me like, hey, I'm going to be okay. Mom, what you are doing now is not going to scar me for life. It's actually going to help me be a successful, direct, yet kind woman who contributes to society in a way that you don't even realize that can be done. If she could tell me that right now and look into that magic ball, I would feel like, man, what a weight lifted off as a parent. And so the best way that I knew as to how to do that is to find an adult woman who does not yet have children, but was raised by a woman who is much like each and every one of our listeners to give us permission to say, hey, it's going to be okay. Through a deep and connection filled conversation. Which leads me to introduce to you a woman who I described very well in all of that to you, Mackenzie Jacobson, who is a daughter, 29 year old daughter of a woman who is so like many of you and yet has proven to be, I dare I say, more than even her mother could have imagined. As a working parent who was eventually going to start a family. When things decide to go that route right now, McKinsey is a sales professional with Imagine Communications. She is in sales. She has a husband named Jonathan. They've been married for four years. Let's be honest, when you're a dog mom, you understand the pushes and pulls of what happens when things don't go your way. So she has four animals who are lovingly under her care, and she's excited to be a parent one day with her husband, Jonathan. And I'm excited to talk through what it looks like McKinsey to be raised by a woman who you admire so very much, and who have the qualities that so many of us try to have each and every day. And yet in the back of our minds question whether or not they're going to be okay. So McKinsey, welcome and thank you for being here. I'm giddy. Thank you so much for inviting me on here. Uh, such a pleasure. Um, you are going to provide insight today that I think a lot of us wish that we could get when it comes to our kids who are in that sweet spot age that yet don't even know what's going to happen. So for those who are listening to today's episode, before we get into the nitty gritty, if you will, what do you want and hope that working parents take away from what you share with us today? Well, um, I guess to have the confidence in their ability to lead their children, um, and that just, you know, allowing them to have allowing them to be who they are at a young age and, you know, gently mold them. Um, and, you know, again, just have the confidence that, you know, they're going to figure it out as they get a little older, giving them permission, giving kids permission to. I love how you said, like, gently molding, because we don't want them to be an exact replica of us, because that would be boring. And yet, I really do want her to not suck at life. And I say her because a girl is very reflective, right? But you have brothers as well. And so your brothers have absorbed qualities of both of your parents. And so I, as we have spoken about prior McKinsey, I was raised by a dad who worked outside the home, has a very strong work ethic. Farmer does not take a day off in his life, and a mother who worked just as hard inside the home. That is not the reality that our children, Sydney and Hudson, are growing up in. They are being raised by two working parents that are outside the home the majority of the time. Which is I only have the comparison to what how I was raised. You, however, can share and shed light on those. kids who are raised by two working parents outside the home. McKinsey. How did that shape the woman that you are today? Oh yeah. So I guess I'll start from, you know, the type of mother I was raised by who's been in the field for over 30 years as a nurse. Um, but more than that, you know, I was raised by a woman, uh, on a farm, right? Surrounded by love, discipline and, like, deep rooted work ethic. Right? She had a wonderful childhood, carried big dreams. Um, and just wanted to, you know, do more as she got older, experience life to the fullest and, um, you know, have great success to create opportunities for her future family. Right. So set us up, my brothers and I, to be able to have the opportunities. Um, that ambition, I would say, paired with the grounding upbringing, is something that she passed down to me. Right. Um, and it's. You're absolutely right. I did have both working parents, so I am split right down the middle of my mom and dad. Um, my readiness, my strength, my drive. I mean, that really comes from my mom. But my patience, calm and thoughtfulness comes from my dad. And, you know, together, they gave me that balance, right? That I carry in every room. It's, you know, ready to leave, but also ready to listen. And I think as I watch both of them, you know, kind of have the nurse role and then the sales role, I got to see, you know, I guess emotional intelligence, communication skills at the heart of it. Patience for others. Um, I mean, a lot of strategies in both of those worlds. I find it interesting the way in which you described your mom and the way in which you described your dad, and then you did not establish a second time that you got your caring and your nurturing from your dad and the other things you got from your mom. Your dad was not the one as the nurse. Your dad was actually the one in the sales role. How do you feel like you show up with those parts from both parents in you, in your sales role? I would have to say, going back to the introduction piece of it, being in sales in a broadcast technology space, which is a male dominated industry at its heart of it. Right. I mean, I personally have never sold to a woman, so I've never had I yeah, I've never had somebody just that emotionally charged on the opposite side of the table like myself. Right. Um, you know, and I navigate the high stakes negotiations and support some big names in the media industry and faith based broadcasting space. Right. And in order to walk into a room full of men who have had years and years of experience. And I'm in my 20s, you know, going in there to support them, I draw a lot of that confidence, my voice, my backbone, everything that my mom, you know, made sure that she represented her, that she showcased as I was growing up. Right. She always told me, you know, speak up for the things, right. Make. Don't don't let anybody ever belittle you. I guess you know is a good way to put some of that as a working mom. I want to know the best ways to help Sydney and Hudson show up in life, like your mom has raised you to show up in life, as previously you had off the cuff mentioned that it was maybe not one specific moment that really resonated with you. That has made you the direct, working, adult and confident woman that you are, but a lifetime of experiences. It is hard for me, as a working mom to share some of the experiences that I encounter, because it wasn't talked about in my home as much one, because maybe those experiences didn't happen. And two. Humility is something that I was very much taught, and I have to remind myself from time to time that sharing experiences with our children is not bragging about a job well done, or look at what mommy or daddy did. Would you almost say that when your mom shared experiences or situations, or even crucial conversations, that you've said that you've learned from her as a working mom? Is that almost how you learned was from her sharing life experience with you? Yes, I would absolutely say yes to that. And, you know, also, you kind of jog my memory a little bit. You know, even with her demanding job, my mom always made space for us. Right? So she created an environment where my brothers and I felt safe to speak, uh, to feel, to be heard. Um, we never questioned whether she would show up when it counted. Right. Because she always did. It's that consistency part of it. And that emotional safety really grounded us. Um, and kind of built that bridge for strong communication from childhood to our adult years. You shared that having a safe, open space, to be able to freely communicate so that your thoughts and feelings are heard and that you can voice them and sometimes, let's be honest, even push back and share that you don't agree with something. Probably more so at an older age, if you will. What did she say or do to facilitate that type of environment? To know that you could? Um, yeah. So I think back to getting off the bus and walking in the front door. You know, my mom worked the weekends because my dad would travel Monday through Friday. And the first thing you know, that we all can probably resonate with was, hey, how was school? What did you learn? Why aren't you talking to me today? What's going on? You know, it was those subtle check ins. Again, I go back to consistency with her. You know, she always made sure to ask how we were feeling, if anything happened. How so? And so she did a good job of staying in tuned at every age, you know, with what was going on. Right? Because, you know, when you're younger, you're getting new friends, when you're in middle school, you're getting that cell phone and you know, you're on Facebook, all the socials, you're starting sports and you're in high school and you have some drama or, you know, maybe you don't because your clashes gets along great. Right? Um, so yeah, she just did a really good job of checking in with my brothers and I were there moments that whether that was before bed, like you said, when they got off the bus, did you guys have time at dinners? Was it before you went to bed? Were there moments where you felt like, man, my mom is super focused on me, and that connection really held away in your mind that you want to pass on and carry on with your children. Yeah. So my family, you know, when my dad was home, he would always cook dinner. My mom would help with the sides, you know, and we would sit down and have a family meal. As you get older, they became a little less right. My brother was off to college. Harrison and I were very busy. All our friends and sometimes not home as much. But I remember when Walking Dead came out every Sunday, it was kind of interesting. We just all oddly came together, and that was kind of our show to watch, you know, eating dinner. Um, and I never really ever questioned if I lost my parents attention or my mom's, um. She was just always very much. I think I've shared this before, but an anchor in my life. And as I got older, you know, she became both a propeller and an anchor. So, um. Yeah, I've never questioned that. Um, I feel very fortunate to say that to, um, Mhm. Describe to me the anchor and the propeller analogy. When you think of your mom as an anchor, what comes to mind? Is it words. Is it situations. And I ask that question because me as a working parent and a working mom, I want to be an anchor. I want to be that person that they know in any storm I will hold ground, I will hold space, I will be for them, while also in the back of my mind, like trying to convince myself right now is that me? Like, am I doing enough because we second guess ourselves the entire time? That's what we do as parents. And let's be honest, that's what oftentimes we do as women as well. So to you, what did what did an anchor look like. And then the second part of that is how does she because she still consistently does propel you to achieve. Yeah. So the anchor part of it I think it comes into play, man, when I'm just going through something hard. Right. She really held it down for me. She really again gave me that space to share. Um, and, you know, would kind of lean in and understand or kind of read the room, read my face if I was in the mood for a response or if I just needed to share. And my mom, you know, would also pose that question, you know, what do you need? And we I also think back to when I had like random panic attacks in college came out of nowhere. Um, it was something that I was not used to. And I was actually getting ready to graduate with my bachelor's, and I was behind the curtains, standing next to my friend, and I had that fight or flight turn on in my body, and it was so abnormal to me. And I remember, you know, texting my mom and she came behind. I mean, she's not supposed to be there. She came behind the curtains to stand next to me, and she can see I'm flustered. Right? And I was like, hey, I think we should just go. I mean, I really don't need a walk, right? I'm conversating with my mom and she's just like, hey, you know what? You can do this. You can do this. It's not a big deal. Everybody's here to watch you. It'll be done, you know, in, like, less than no time. But I just couldn't get there yet. And then, you know, um, it's that art of knowing what your child needs to hear. And so my mom was like, hey, get yourself together. You know, you're gonna walk, knock it off. Right? And so, like, and that's what I needed to hear. I needed to hear that I'm not going to run. That's not an option. Right? That fight or flight, I'm going to say right where I'm at, right where I am, right where my feet are. Because I know my mom is right there, as is all my family. Right? And, you know, I was walking right next to my friend, too. And do you know, when we walked to those aisles of chairs, she was the last seat and I had to start a new row. And like, I remember looking to the audience at my mom and she was just like, she breathe in through her nose and then made the sign to breathe out, like, relax, You know, I just can't explain it. And that was probably my last time ever experiencing something like that. But that right there explains both the propeller and, you know, she pushed me to continue forward with the plan and then anchored me to feel, you know, safe where I was. I love that visual. While also I, I think sometimes as a working mom, we think our kids have to have it all together all of the time. Because deep down, whether you want to admit it or not, there is a an element, if you will, of when my kids show up a certain way, they are a reflection of my parenting. I have definitely lessened that a little bit because of Hudson, and we are very different. And your mom realized that once they get older, you're going to have your own emotions and your own feelings, and that's okay. So giving you permission to do that and space to not be okay, which is really hard because sometimes we want to stop, we want to stop it. And in this moment, she was needing to stop it because this was something that you had to be done. But in the moments when she didn't need you to stop having sadness or anxiety or fear, she allowed you to have those emotions and not make you stuff them down. Because that's not how we act. That's hard. Did she ever share her hardships and negative emotions, if you will, with you in moments that she was experiencing? Did did you see her basically have hard times or breakdowns or anxious moments? And if so, did that help you realize that it was okay to experience that? I would have to say it wasn't until my adulthood where I saw a little bit of anxiousness come from my mom, which, you know, when I was going through that, it shocked her, right? Because I had never experienced anything. I mean, I couldn't even talk to the doctor because we were checking for everything, right? And in this time, you know, it shocked me to see her feel anything less than who she is. Do you wish that you. Maybe she would have shown you those moments where maybe she had previously struggled for you to know that it was okay? I want to say, growing up, you know, it's hard to leave things at the door. I just really don't believe in that saying, you know, I used to. But then when I got older and, you know, I had more, you know, experience life a little bit more and got married and had all the, the careers. Right. Um, responsibilities. That is so hard. Right? Um, she would come in through the door and openly say, hey, I've had a really hard day. You know, I lost patience. You know, I've been with, you know, the families And so she would equally be okay with showing up just as she was. Right. And I think again, because she modeled that us kids were able to see that. And then, you know, she gifted us the opportunity to do that as well. Right. Um, so I did see a little bit of it when I cry or when I get, I like to think of it as like a little bee that just buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz around. And Sydney will say, mom, what is going on? Nothing. I'm fine. Would have been me 3 or 4 years ago. I take that extra second and I say, oh, first of all, mom does probably need to take a breath because when you inhale for three and exhale for four, your central nervous system, you know, stabilizes a little bit more. And mommy has a to do list in my mind that has a lot of things on it, and I'm really rushing to get them all done And I think because me sharing all of that now, guess who has lists before she packed for camp. And so I asked her, I said, where did you get this list? I love that you made this. Now of course, her list would definitely be different than my camping list. Her list said sleeping mask two pairs of socks, cross earrings, lip gloss. And I was like, is this all we're taking to camp? She's like, it was what was in my to do list in my brain, mommy, sharing those types of experiences might not be so great. I mean, Hudson does a little bit when I cry and then now they'll ask, are these happy tears? Or are these sad tears? And I think that allowing that type of space to have that type of conversation has made you who you are, and you are so open to learning that desire to consistently learn from other women your age, from those who are twice your age. That open mindset as a young adult, I think is key. And yet, was that taught to you? How? How do I teach my children to realize that they don't know everything? I laugh, and you know, if my mom ever listens to this, I think back to when, you know, I dated somebody who was not correct for me. And so. But I thought it was right. I mean, so, you know, I love your, you know, you're very complimentary of where I'm at today. And but, you know, I've had my trials and tribulations, right? I remember arguing and standing up using the voice, you know, that my mom gave me against her, against her wishes. Right? Um. And nothing to do harm to myself or anybody around me. Right. But, like to a point where I thought I knew what was best at 19. I think it's a balancing act, right? I think it's, you know, as you describe, sharing kind of where you're at, how you're feeling. I think when you know, a kid or when I was, you know, juggling things and making big considerations. Is a parent staying interested and still allowing that child to kind of lean towards what they're wanting. And you know, if a parent feels strongly about it, let it rip. I mean, my mom did. Right. But then, of course, my dad was calmly in the background saying, but do what makes you happy. Right. You know, um, it's that it's a two way, you know, um, or not a two way street, but it's that balancing act, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. Again, I appreciate that because sometimes I feel like I can be a little too extreme and some might say controlling, and that's okay. Because we are able to have conversations that lead to more open spaces, kind of like you refer to. I want to make sure that we take time to give the listeners credit. I would almost assume that a lot of you are already doing some of the things that we talked about, creating a space where feelings and thoughts and emotions can be expressed by your children, realizing that, hey, they are not a full reflection of my parenting or the lack thereof. They're their own people. We don't want them to be just like us. And yet, there are things that I don't love about myself as a parent and I am working on. But there are things that I really do appreciate and admire about myself as a parent. When I look at our children, and maybe if I'm your mom looking at you. Let's flip it. Let's flip it. Sydney looks at me. You looking at your mom? I believe that if I were to ask Sydney the question as to what do you admire most about your mom, she would say something along the lines of. She does my hair. She paints my nails, right? You might have said that when you were younger, but what do you admire most about your mom as a working parent now, at the age of 29, that might be different than when you were eight. Sharing her wisdom and knowledge with those who are, you know, becoming nurses, right? So it's pouring into the younger generation and spending quality time with those individuals. Did she do that to you? Is that why you admire that is because you now see the way that she gets to do that for others. Because she did it to you and your brothers? Yeah. Growing up, it felt very, um, focused on us. Like, I had no idea what her world really entailed. And then as I got older, I realized, oh, my gosh, she's not just parenting, you know, myself and my two brothers. She's parenting a lot. She's mentoring a lot of other people. She's, you know, walking on stage, giving speeches and, you know, congratulating, um, students. Right. Um, and wishing them the best as they step into their adulthood. Right. And I know so many times as well, they'll text her, right, or reach out, um, to celebrate other successes when they're well past her program. right there still. She is still somebody that people reach out to because they know she'll celebrate it. Celebrate with them. Right. It's just I probably admire that the most about my mom right now in this space. How are you or were you because you didn't just come up with this answer? You've been noticing this for the past 10 or 15 years, which at this point in time, you're still in high school. I in high school was too concerned about myself. How were you able to notice this type of thing at a younger age, about the abilities and the capacity of your working parents? How did you realize this? Oh, gosh. Uh, that's a hard question. Um, so, man, I don't know. I, I feel like I had a big group of friends, so I had a lot of perspective at a younger age. I grew up a lot, uh, hanging around my grandparents. Um, and, you know, we would do the soup kitchen, right? Meals on wheels. So I got to see, you know, a lot of different households, people from different spaces, um, with different struggles. So I was very humbled and could probably easily recognize, you know, those who are working hard, right? Um, or those who are just clearly struggling. Right. Um, and my parents never sheltered us from that either. Right. They kind of they let us see that, um, and openly shared such an interesting dynamic because I am I can tell that, yes, I share converse with our kids more. So somebody made the joke not too long ago. What's it like around your guys's dinner table? Do people have to raise hands to get a word in? And I think about that. And actually, yes, our kids do raise hands because we want to teach them out of respect. Like you do not interrupt other people. And it's not because we don't let them have a turn. It's purely the respect thing, but perspectives. It's a great insight. Sometimes I think, and I get focused on we have to go do this and it's not a get to. We have to go do this so that you're not entitled. We need to add to this to our to do list so that you can be exposed to all of this. But ultimately, if we drill down, it's a great way when you go and do different things and you expose them to different opportunities and people and you've you've referenced sometimes how you would go spend a week with your grandparents or a week with, I just asked you this question not too long ago, you had said something about, I can't believe the experiences that Sydney is able to do from church camp. I didn't even look at it like that. I looked at it as more of a oh my gosh, I have to leave her for a week. How will she ever thrive? Which ultimately, like we both know that I learned a lot from that. She was able to do things without me. But for you to say that perspective of I was able to go learn from my aunt for a month when I went with her to do this, and the different perspectives that were shown to you at a younger age allowed you to really integrate. So rather than maybe get down on myself when I'm like, oh my goodness, I'm taking a weekend away with my husband to go do this, and instead maybe look at it as they're getting to spend a weekend with their grandparents and learn X, y, z. So I really appreciate when you share that type of insight. Let's transition to a little bit about the woman that you are now, because of the working parents that you have had. You are a rock star when it comes to sales and leadership, and carrying yourself in a manner that sometimes I wish 40 year old women would be able to do. You have a deep seated sense of confidence. What is something about your work ethic or your mindset that as a woman, you wish other women knew at an earlier age? I think it goes back to a conversation my mom and I had when I was really younger. Um, it was the power of self-talk, right? And how our thoughts shape our world. Wholeheartedly, right. She taught me to love myself, to stay grounded and to stand up for what matters. All. All while staying soft and empathetic. Right? And just. It's just being kind to yourself. Really, um, making a mistake and saying, okay, what did I learn? Right? Um, and having the ability to just kind of take that next step for yourself and not getting stuck where you are in the thick of parenting, hearing all of that, I'm like, yeah, that sounds great. Tell me how. And I'm not. I think that's more so of like a rhetorical question of. How you opened this. Consistency. Consistency. Consistency. Consistency in the self-talk. Did you ever hear or remember or see your mom look in the mirror and speak poorly about her appearance? Not when I was growing up, ever. She was very cognizant of that, and I remember her correcting me several times to if I ever said anything about myself, right? Whether it be, you know, my hair looks weird. I've got pimples, whatever it is. Right? Um, yeah. No, um, I would say in my adulthood, I feel like my mom is a little bit hotter and harder on herself. And as that child, you know, um, I corrected her on it and said, hey, you know, I'm still listening and watching you. You know, it comes full circle, right? That this child right here is going to check you one day. So you gotta hold the line when it comes to confidence at work, how do you show up in a way that is different? I'd have to say the confidence in my role today really comes from me showing up prepared, having the willingness to learn, hear different perspectives, with also the ability to, you know, if, if my opinion or my idea, I feel very strongly of it's crafting, you know, it's having the confidence to share that with my colleague or teammate or, you know, customer, you know, being that guide in a way. Um, and yeah, I guess accomplishing that again comes down to being organized, um, being aware of the project at hand. Um, those around the table, you know, again, having that emotional intelligence and understanding, um, personalities, right, that are also in the room. Right. Um, knowing the audience, I guess is a better way to say that. So all that comes into, you know, the pot, right? When, um, trying to, uh, leave with confidence in this role that I'm in today. Um, and to think that it's, you're building on it still day in and day out, while realizing that it's all started from the influence of your working parents. What? I hear some of your answers. It makes me breathe a little lighter in knowing. Okay, yes, I have areas that I want to improve upon. I love the example of making sure to read the situation and maybe taking that a step further and saying, okay, this is why we are doing this, and I want you to see a different side of this story or a different perspective. So I really appreciate that. While also you have an interesting you're in an interesting stage and season of life right now because you're in that period of I've been married for four years. We want to be parents, and a lot of your friends are parents. What are you noticing? Because a lot of your friends confide in you. What are you noticing with your close mom friends that they are craving right now, be it as a parent or as a woman in general? Mhm. Thinking back to all the conversations that I have had with my friends, I would say one thing that used to come up pretty consistently is that mom guilt that you have hit on several times, right? Um, having confidence in the body that they're in now and learning to love themselves again. And. Trying to find time for themselves without that guilt part again. Um, and, you know, I had a really good conversation with one of my friends who, um, you know, her and I were on a walk, and she was just pouring all of her energy into her kid. And, you know, what was feeling really low in other parts of her life? And I think I had said at the time, you know, hey, you got to look at your life like a garden, right? There's several different analogies about this out there. But at the time, you know, I had no idea. But, you know, I was just like. Your daughter's a rose. You're a sunflower, you know. You're also a wife, right? So put your husband in the garden. And right now, the rose is blooming, right? Very vibrant. That's your daughter. Okay, but you're looking a little, you know, wilted. Like you gotta. You gotta spend time. And it was kind of walking her through that, you know, to where, like, a light bulb went off. And over the course of like, a few months, she was sending me photos of, hey, I did this for myself. Thank you again. Right. And then, you know, sending me Pinterest photos of tattoo ideas for her garden. Right. And I feel like sometimes people just need that symbolism to kind of help them visualize what's the next step? What do I need to do for myself to take care of all areas of my life? I love that, and when the moment you said your husband needs to be in that garden as well in in different seasons of life, like I needed Jeremy to be a cactus. When that kitten, those kids were like, yeah, you get nothing. And right now, like, let's I don't know, lavender does that not need a lot of water? I mean, it's still better. It's more than a cactus. I know I have a black. Everything I touch, I can do it. Two days ago, as we were sitting, the kids and I were playing in the pool and Jeremy was tending to said garden. He came over and he was like, hey, um, if you want to do anything with this lavender, you can make some lavender lemon drops if you want. And I was like, I don't know how to make lavender. And he was like, well, you could do it with a mojito. And I was like, I don't have mint. And he goes, Denise, look at this. And so around our pool is a lavender plant and a mint plant, a lavender plant and a mint plant. And he goes, I've planted this for you. I said, what? What? He's like this lavender and mint I did for you so you could make lavender mojitos. Why have I never put this together? That is beautiful. Can I have a sign that says Denise's mojito garden? He's like, yeah, you just gotta go make the sign. That's awesome. As I compare that to your garden reference, maybe it's okay for us to water the children's roses, if you will. And there are times when a sunflowers are a little dry. And maybe we need to ask for help. You are the first person to encourage people to ask you for help, and that's scary because we are not necessarily taught or raised in a place where it's like, yes, raise your hand, ask the question, ask for help. And yet maybe that is okay. And I don't know necessarily how I got from a lavender mint garden reference to back to the cactus or the sunflower rose reference, but I, I like that symbolism in the thought of what are you doing to take care of yourself as a working parent today? And that does not have to be extravagant. It can maybe be a brain dump of your to do list, so that you can make sure that you have lipstick and earrings for your church camp list. You know, like, yeah, what is it for you that's going to work? And so I think that that dovetails nicely. Is that where you feel like women, working moms specifically are the hardest on themselves? Is managing that mom guilt and taking time for yourself? And then the next question is, yes, probably. What would you say if you if I could have a McKinsey on my shoulder as a byproduct of a working mom and one who lives in friends with a lot of working moms in today's season of life, what would you say to us to keep in the back of our mind, ultimately, just to be kind to yourself and that it's okay to ask for space. It's okay to not be there 24 over seven. You know, it's okay to take five minutes. It's okay to take a shower by yourself. It's okay, you know, to want to read your book, you know, for 20 minutes, right? And for those with a, you know, a supportive husband in the picture, you know, significant other, you know, you have to build that comfort level up of asking for what you need. And so that I would just be that advocate for that. Asking for what you need with your partner is something that I had struggled with, and I I'm doing much better, but I struggle with it a couple years ago. What would you have said to me two years ago? Um, I have been in this position with several friends, and, you know, I always it kind of made it made me think about two things. One, how blessed I am with John. You know, right from the start, I knew, you know, communication is going to be key. Let's get this foundation set right. Um, and he matched that energy. Loved it. And the second thought I have is if a friend was really struggling, which I've had again, these conversations numerous of times. You know, sometimes I would need to speak for them, you know? And just so, two years ago, for you, I would say, hey, Jeremy, come have a seat, because we're about to have a little bit of a conversation and it's supposed to be productive. It's not an attack on you. It's for the success of your family and your kids. And right now, Denise is really needing some time of attention and ultimately love and support. She's carrying a lot right now. What do you think you could do for her? For you guys? You know, and it wouldn't be on myself when it first happened, right? It wasn't an attack mode, right? You got to find the right tonality. And and it's so strategic and almost sounds skills 101. Right. It's about, you know, again I go all the way back knowing your audience, knowing how to talk to your person. Right. Um, and knowing how to speak up for your friend if they can't do it for themselves. Find yourself a friend like Mackenzie. Find yourself a person who will speak for you when your voice is quiet. That's a great way. Uh, as we conclude our time together, I want to remind all of you. Part of the reason that we wanted to talk with Mackenzie was to a multitude of reasons. But to really show you that it's okay that you're not home 24 over seven. It's okay that you're not there all of the time, because when you as a working parent aren't, it allows so many different perspectives to shine and have a moment in the child's life like you have experienced, while also realizing that the presence that when you're there, if it's powerful and if it's thought out like I know so many of you want to have or already have, it is powerful and you are doing enough because in the back of our mind, so many people don't feel like they're doing a good enough job. McKinsey is a result of. Yes you are. I mean, your dad was gone a lot during the week. Even though you might not be consistently having two presents in a child's life. They're gonna be okay. They're going to be better than okay. They're going to be successful salespeople and teachers and engineers and all of these wonderful things that yes, that's a title. But ultimately, McKinsey, if you can reflect back on the childhood of a working parent, both of them outside of the household, in one word, how would you describe how your parents made you feel when they weren't even there all of the time? Mhm. I think in one word. Wow. Uh. Um. I think it was trusting. I mean, trust, trust. That'll be the perfect one. And trust can happen through text messages, through phone calls, through eye contact, through when the kids walk in, the first thing that they see is that connection, that those minutes of connection when you reunite and man powerful, powerful things to almost look into the future, to see your kids going to be okay and this is how they are going to be. McKinsey, what a pleasure it was to have your perspective are. That's the perfect word on this type of conversation when you not only pour into women, but you see what it's like to be raised by strong willed individuals who aren't always there, but yet are always present. Because in those moments when we can, we make it so impactful. So thank you so much. And listeners, you can connect with McKinsey in different ways. If you're like, Holy cow, she loves to mentor. You can check her out on LinkedIn, her bio and link to do so is in our show notes. If you are on YouTube, you can see the way in which she carries herself. It is. It is a learned behavior and you are teaching this. But if you're like, man, I really like to have a conversation just to see what other ways your mom impacted you. You can visit with and connect with Mackenzie online. With that, we thank all of you for listening, and be sure to tune in to the next episode of the Working Moms Redefined podcast. Thank you for listening to the Working Moms Redefined podcast. It is not lost on me that you chose to spend time together. Thank you. Let's connect outside of this space on socials. We'd love for you to follow us on Instagram, Facebook LinkedIn, Pinterest. We've got it all to connect with you. If you feel as if someone in your life could be impacted by this message, feel free to share it. That is the biggest compliment as we part ways together. Remember, you can do hard things.
